bipolar (bjt) transistor families for audio power output stages - Page 11

Damon Hill · 18th December 2009, 08:53 PM

A further question I'd like clarified is whether the thermal tracking diodes on the OnSemi and Sanken (anyone else?) transistors are part of the transistor's silicon die or are the just mounted adjacent to the die? I'd like to think they are integral for fastest response time, but I'll take what I can get.

tiefbassuebertr · 18th December 2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinius

Lumba

Since this thread is about audio power output stages what about comparing 2SA1943/2SC5200 with onsemi 3281/1302?

At the first look basicly not great differences. The 3281/1302 both available from TOKYO SHIBAURA ELECTRIC and On-Semiconductor - look at my first post (post #1).

In this case this thread could be also of interest:
Evaluation results: MJL3281A/MJL1302A SPICE Models

stinius · 18th December 2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Hill

A further question I'd like clarified is whether the thermal tracking diodes on the OnSemi and Sanken (anyone else?) transistors are part of the transistor's silicon die or are the just mounted adjacent to the die? I'd like to think they are integral for fastest response time, but I'll take what I can get.

Hi Damon
The OnSemi tracking diodes is not a part of the silicon die.
Have a look at this thread, a lot of info.
On Semi ThermalTrak

Cheers

mjf · 18th December 2009, 09:44 PM

[QUOTE
The 3281/1302 both available from TOKYO SHIBAURA ELECTRIC and On-Semiconductor - look at my first post (post #1).

hello.
i think magnatec (semelab ) has them too.
Magnatec | Semiconductors | Discretes | Bipolar Transistors | PNP Power |2SA1302-0
greetings

Lumba Ogir · 18th December 2009, 11:12 PM

stinius,
thanks again for your kind help.

I`m extraordinarily glad to see that Motorola took the effort to develop the MJL3281/MJL1302 for linear applications. Copying the readily available 2SC3281/2SA1302, however, would have significantly reduced the high product development costs.

wahab · 18th December 2009, 11:13 PM

[QUOTE=Ultima Thule;2017244]Let me see, I had a second look to try understand how the information should be interpreted given in the data sheet and test circuit in attachment of post #71

It says 28,3 V RMS and 100 Watt @ output into 8 Ohm..
Let's see if we do the Ohms law calculation the 28,3^2 = 800...
P = U^2/R >>> 800/8 = 100 Watt
Upk (for sine) = U RMS * sqr2 >>> 28,3 * 1,414 = 40 Volt peak

alternatively we can calculate the power also as follow:

28,3 U RMS / 8 Ohm = ~3,54 A RMS
28,3 * 3,54 = 100 Watt

As I can see we have 10 Volts of headroom to the 50 Volt rails supply before clipping occures.

Wahab, correct me if I'm wrong here!?

If we do the simulation again with 80 Volt pk-2-pk and for both 240 mA and 52 mA what how would the distortion look then?
(Re for output transistor as in pots #71, eg. 0,5 Ohm)

Cheers Michael[/QUOTE

hi, michael

Peak current is 5A, so the maximum loss in the emitter degeneration
resistance is 0.5 X 5 = 2.5V....on each rail..
add the transistors losses..
here the graphs of THD for Iq of about 230 mA...

regards,

wahab

stinius · 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lumba Ogir

stinius,
thanks again for your kind help.

I`m extraordinarily glad to see that Motorola took the effort to develop the MJL3281/MJL1302 for linear applications. Copying the readily available 2SC3281/2SA1302, however, would have significantly reduced the high product development costs.

Lumba

You are too generous.

Since you liked the MJL3281/1302 (switching) devices, maybe you could have a look at the NJW devices as well, and the most interesting parts the NJL series aka TT ( these are the devices that Bob are talking about)

NJW

NJL

wahab · 18th December 2009, 11:53 PM

i added the figures for a 10Khz frequency...
quite interesting..

regards,

wahab

wahab · 19th December 2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stinius

Lumba

You are too generous.

Since you liked the MJL3281/1302 (switching) devices, maybe you could have a look at the NJW devices as well, and the most interesting parts the NJL series aka TT ( these are the devices that Bob are talking about

the MJL3281/1302, more or less good copies of the (old) toshiba
2SA1302/2SC3281 are better than the MJL21193/21194...
the latter are gross rugged devices which are neither good in audio
nor in switching, unless it s slow frequency...they lack gain linearity..

Ultima Thule · 19th December 2009, 12:07 AM

Hi Wahab,

I think we can agree now it's far from clipping however we want to define headroom may be a semantic question anyway.
Thanks for making another simulation, it is interesting the simulator indicate the Toshiba having higher odd orders than even order in comparison to the ON-Semi, but these are anyway just simulations.

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18th December 2009, 08:53 PM	#101
Damon Hill diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Auburn, WA (somewhere between Seattle and Tacoma) Blog Entries: 1	A further question I'd like clarified is whether the thermal tracking diodes on the OnSemi and Sanken (anyone else?) transistors are part of the transistor's silicon die or are the just mounted adjacent to the die? I'd like to think they are integral for fastest response time, but I'll take what I can get.

18th December 2009, 09:44 PM	#104
mjf diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: upper austria/near linz	[QUOTE The 3281/1302 both available from TOKYO SHIBAURA ELECTRIC and On-Semiconductor - look at my first post (post #1). hello. i think magnatec (semelab ) has them too. Magnatec \| Semiconductors \| Discretes \| Bipolar Transistors \| PNP Power \|2SA1302-0 greetings

18th December 2009, 11:12 PM	#105
Lumba Ogir Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Stockholm	stinius, thanks again for your kind help. I`m extraordinarily glad to see that Motorola took the effort to develop the MJL3281/MJL1302 for linear applications. Copying the readily available 2SC3281/2SA1302, however, would have significantly reduced the high product development costs.

19th December 2009, 12:07 AM	#110
Ultima Thule diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Koskenkorva Land	Hi Wahab, I think we can agree now it's far from clipping however we want to define headroom may be a semantic question anyway. Thanks for making another simulation, it is interesting the simulator indicate the Toshiba having higher odd orders than even order in comparison to the ON-Semi, but these are anyway just simulations.