How complex to make an amplifier ? (lighthearted)

Bigun · 29th June 2009, 04:47 PM

Having built my first DIY amplifier I was so happy I started designing more complicated ones. The amplifier I build already sounds good enough, but it's so interesting that I feel compelled to go on with more esoteric ideas.

I have modeled this phenomena.

As amplifier complexity increases...

Time and effort increases
Sound quality increases with diminishing returns
bragging rights are highest at either very simple or very complex

And the total = satisfaction and shows two peaks. I think the first peak is the highest and represents the amplifiers DX, TGM, BTF, Frugal, Patchwork, Symasym....

Is it worth going beyond ?

ostripper · 29th June 2009, 09:28 PM

You seem to understand the tradeoffs ,gareth. My supersym only sounds better than my bootstrap by a small degree. Any complexity (mostly size /quantity + softstart), is in the power supply. At low volumes they are nearly indistinguishable. The BTF would likely be identical.

One can regulate the voltage amp's PS (split supply) , and this would be a larger return (at the price of added complexity) Subtle changes in the LTP (CFP , standard , fet diff.) , have a VERY small sonic return besides better numbers.

Output stages are a different story .. Biasing , CFP vs EF/triple or mosfets .. sonic differences are noticable at higher levels. Done wrong , an other wise ample powered setup "runs out of steam" or has harsh sound. Oscillation , even at a barely measurable level, also has this effect .. VERY noticable.

OS

AKSA · 29th June 2009, 11:14 PM

Gareth,

I think you have it pretty well figured out..... I enjoyed the bit about bragging rights!

An interesting thing is that you could design an atom bomb, and people did, but they all came in for criticism. There are so many decisions to make in the design process that opportunity exists for your personal imprint. This inevitably draws comment, as others would choose another option. This is particularly true of front end and current source topologies.

I think increasing complexity is something we should vigorously fight. It threatens the species, like a V12 gasoline engine for a car. Simple can be good, but a great deal of time must be spent tweaking for best sound.

The last couple of years have brought us the TGM, the Abomination, the Supersym, the list of amps on this forum is amazing, most of them very, very good.

You have joined the ranks, congratulations!

Cheers,

Hugh

Bigun · 30th June 2009, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKSA You have joined the ranks, congratulations!

I think a graduation ceremony is needed

MJL21193 · 30th June 2009, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKSA

You have joined the ranks, congratulations!

Alumni:

In case you're wondering, that's me in the middle...

Cal Weldon · 30th June 2009, 10:35 PM

Once again a thread has been derailed by a few select individuals. I have cleared out the offending posts and then some. Apologies to those whose valuable comments may have been swept out with the rest of the trash. Please feel free to repost.

Anymore mud slinging will result in bin time.

Fair warning.

Bigun · 30th June 2009, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MJL21193
In case you're wondering, that's me in the middle...

you're in the Sydney Morning Herald getting flowers

MJL21193 · 30th June 2009, 11:14 PM

Well, I have more hair than Hunter and do A LOT less drugs but I do like to write nonsense...

How do you see yourself? Benicio or Johnny?

Cal Weldon · 30th June 2009, 11:41 PM

John, You're going to have to update your avatar photo. It's looking a little dated.

Bigun · 30th June 2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MJL21193
Well, I have more hair than Hunter and do A LOT less drugs but I do like to write nonsense...

How do you see yourself? Benicio or Johnny?

I'm definitely the Pirate

29th June 2009, 11:14 PM	#3
AKSA diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia	Gareth, I think you have it pretty well figured out..... I enjoyed the bit about bragging rights! An interesting thing is that you could design an atom bomb, and people did, but they all came in for criticism. There are so many decisions to make in the design process that opportunity exists for your personal imprint. This inevitably draws comment, as others would choose another option. This is particularly true of front end and current source topologies. I think increasing complexity is something we should vigorously fight. It threatens the species, like a V12 gasoline engine for a car. Simple can be good, but a great deal of time must be spent tweaking for best sound. The last couple of years have brought us the TGM, the Abomination, the Supersym, the list of amps on this forum is amazing, most of them very, very good. You have joined the ranks, congratulations! Cheers, Hugh __________________ Aspen Amplifiers P/L (Australia) www.aksaonline.com

30th June 2009, 10:35 PM	#6
Cal Weldon Speakerholic diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: British Columbia	Once again a thread has been derailed by a few select individuals. I have cleared out the offending posts and then some. Apologies to those whose valuable comments may have been swept out with the rest of the trash. Please feel free to repost. Anymore mud slinging will result in bin time. Fair warning. __________________ Next stop: Margaritaville Some of Cal's stuff \| Cal Weldon Consulting

30th June 2009, 11:41 PM	#9
Cal Weldon Speakerholic diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: British Columbia	John, You're going to have to update your avatar photo. It's looking a little dated. __________________ Next stop: Margaritaville Some of Cal's stuff \| Cal Weldon Consulting

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29th June 2009, 09:28 PM	#2
ostripper diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Albany , NY (smallbany)	You seem to understand the tradeoffs ,gareth. My supersym only sounds better than my bootstrap by a small degree. Any complexity (mostly size /quantity + softstart), is in the power supply. At low volumes they are nearly indistinguishable. The BTF would likely be identical. One can regulate the voltage amp's PS (split supply) , and this would be a larger return (at the price of added complexity) Subtle changes in the LTP (CFP , standard , fet diff.) , have a VERY small sonic return besides better numbers. Output stages are a different story .. Biasing , CFP vs EF/triple or mosfets .. sonic differences are noticable at higher levels. Done wrong , an other wise ample powered setup "runs out of steam" or has harsh sound. Oscillation , even at a barely measurable level, also has this effect .. VERY noticable. OS

30th June 2009, 11:14 PM	#8
MJL21193 Account disabled at member's request Join Date: Mar 2007	Well, I have more hair than Hunter and do A LOT less drugs but I do like to write nonsense... How do you see yourself? Benicio or Johnny?