Amp Design/what goes into building a great amp - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th June 2009, 06:40 PM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
What goes to design of great amps?

The same that goes to design of any great thing: understanding of design criteria, and understanding of how to achieve their optimum.

D. Self did not write his book about how to do it. He wrote his book about how to optimize an amp built on the certain topology. And of course, when you are limited by the single topology you have one, and only one, way to improve it: to select more and more optimal component sets for it.

But when your goal is to build a great amp, you are free to use different parts and different topologies.
__________________
"Our youth [...] have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders, contradict their parents, [...] and tyrannize their teachers. -- Plato, 447-367 BCE
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2009, 06:40 PM   #22
MTAtech is offline MTAtech  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally posted by john curl
It is difficult to separate the insults from the recommendations.
Most importantly, audio design is a bit, both objective and subjective. That is what makes it interesting. For example, you can make some amp or preamp that MEASURES very, very well, yet doesn't sound as good as you would presume that it should. Why? How can this be so? Yet, another amp or preamp, might sound better, yet its specs, while somewhat different, should be inaudible by every objective standard of what the ear can hear.
That is very true. Unless you enjoy sitting around listening to sine waves, specs do not tell the whole story. How an amp performs with music or movie tracks is entirely different.

The best amp that I ever owned was a BEL 1001, after listening to it at the home of Dick Brown, the company owner. The BEL was rated at only 50w/channel but outperformed amps with much higher power ratings.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2009, 06:47 PM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
The Bel is a very good amp. Many of my associates owned it, and may still have it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2009, 06:50 PM   #24
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Quote:
Yet, another amp or preamp, might sound better, yet its specs, while somewhat different, should be inaudible by every objective standard of what the ear can hear.
I agree with what you say (the last time I bought speakers, I didnt lok at any print, just compared them side by side) but I dont (and most would agree) believe its something magical. I believe our meausurements (objective standards) are not yet up to the task, that there is some physical explanation, we just dont understand it. The subjectivists dont even want us to look for it!
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2009, 07:29 PM   #25
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
This is not necessarily true. Many 'subjectivists' may ignore measurements, but they don't generally condemn them. OF COURSE, there is some physical and objective reason why we can hear differences, even when virtually all the generally available 'objective' criteria have been met. We just don't measure it with the conventional test equipment available today. This should be of little surprise, because our test equipment still does not measure FM modulation of audio tones to any extent, Hirata, or other factors. They just remain buried in the literature.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2009, 08:20 PM   #26
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Quote:
Many 'subjectivists' may ignore measurements, but they don't generally condemn them
I shoudnt generalize, I probably havent met enuogh subjectivists and am going on some of the extreme examples Ive seen, like the $$$$ power cords some swear by. My apoligies to the resonable ones. In general I think we agree.

Good discusion!

John, you mention other factors, do you know if people are working on measurement equipment for these. I suppose the complexities of such requires large investment, and the poeple who can afford it (SONY etal.) might not see any practical benefit. (increase there bottom line).
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2009, 01:16 AM   #27
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
There are measurement techniques. Try to find the original papers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2009, 01:26 AM   #28
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Bigun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Blog Entries: 2
Quote:
Originally posted by cbdb
I believe our meausurements (objective standards) are not yet up to the task, that there is some physical explanation, we just dont understand it. The subjectivists dont even want us to look for it!
That's an interesting point of view, perhaps we don't want to end up being able to define measurements for everything because then the search for the magic comes to an end.
__________________
"The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed." Robert M Pirsig.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2009, 01:59 AM   #29
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canandaigua, NY USA
The deeper and more perfect the null you can obtain between the input and output, the more perfectly you've reproduced the electrical signal. We can reproduce electrical signals with remarkable precision. We can reproduce them so no human being can tell the difference in a properly conducted test, though I won't side track the discussion by naming that test. What seems to be difficult for people to accept is that perfect reproduction of the electrical signal often doesn't sound as good as imperfect reproduction. As a gross example I like LPs a lot, but by any measure they're a lousy and contaminated version of the original signal. As long as people try to connect electrical perfection with sonic perfection the arguments will go on, keeping the hobby alive and interesting.
__________________
May the root sum of the squares of the Forces be with you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th June 2009, 02:04 AM   #30
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Quote:
because then the search for the magic comes to an end.
The magic is in the music!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is there a great book on speaker design? pythonic Multi-Way 5 9th June 2009 05:45 AM
FS Gainclone Great Chassis, Potted toroidal, great sound PHilgeman Swap Meet 4 2nd May 2006 01:20 PM
Here is a great tip for you guys building aluminum chassis for your amps russbryant Pass Labs 39 28th November 2004 01:19 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:04 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2