commercial interest

[sakis]

i wonder if a proven design that has been arround for too long like for exapmle the DX amplifier ...
now let us not make a war about this .....this is simply hypothetical ....i didnt even asked Carlos for posting this

hypothetically it could be any other amp ....

so the question is if a joined force of forum members to shift the DX amplifier( or other ) from a DIY project to a complete commercial device ...

Do you think that a motion like that would be a nice idea and or profitable ????


I dont even know if its allowed to place a question like that so please excuse me but i just woke up with it ...

thanks sakis

[sakis]

thats odd ....

[destroyer X]

It seems the ones that are doing amplifiers as a business could anwer you..but i do not think they would be happy to answer publically.

It seems the "cake" is not so big to feed many folks.... maybe will be profitable for a single one man.... there are competition and low prices..profit is not so big... you have two options, to ask enormous ammount of money and sell built units....or to produce in series asking small price...small profit.... so..if you sell 1000 you gonna see some money...the other option is more interesting... sells small ammount and have big profit... this reduces sales to small number... i suppose enougth to one man.

No problem to use Dx as example Sakis.... it is interesting the lack of interest about that subject.

One thing is a direct consequence.... if you transform in business you will not more able to use this forum...there are a paid place i think not often visited...i went there once in 4 years.

Some amplifiers are interesting because free.... or almost free, as people has to pay parts....i think they loose interest when have to pay... i never have paid for important pleasant things in my life...i think if i had to pay the pleasure will be reduced in the same ratio the price gonna increase.

If you are very famous into the Audio International communitty..say...business area, then people will run to have your Brand into their home...more a matter of pride to have something customized (produced at small factory, in small number, something exclusive and difficult to have) than a matter of audio quality.

Production in small number... high price... exclusive material and fame are the key words i think.

Hugh Dean said do not use to sell amplifier to forum folks...his customers are outside forum...some folks from forum has..but this is a very small ammount compare his production those last years... he has a very different customers, and a very different method of sales..and he will not tell those secrets for us...naturally.

Want to have a business...be famous first.... hard to find.... customized things with the customer name printed or machined into the panel... exotic parts.... teflon parts.... something transparent to be seen inside.... precious wood... very thick frontal panel, inoxidable steel plates...well...have to spend money to ask for money.

Equipment must be rare, must be beautifull, hard to find, exclusive and customized designs and expensive...the more expensive more belief people apply about what's have inside...you can put a stone to make it heavy..people will be happy as have bougth solid, heavyweigth thing.

Audiophiles are clever folks...but passion drives them not too much clever...passion is something that clouds your brain.... pride is another important thing to think about..the need to be a very important person (VIP) a powerfull man...

The Greek club is interesting...if you want to make good business start to be their technician for free... them, passed some years produce your unit with some spice of pepper and some anti static powder and you gonna have customers that will pay decent values for your work..sell them a cristal that will attract good sonic energies from the Cosmos.... give them the magic they want...someone there said AC mains voltage is the most important thing...sell him a electrical sub station of electricity...some 1000 amperes and stabilizers to him... as magic is what they want.... no one of them is stupid..they need to dream..they want magic..to believe in something.

Pride is when someone says or think:

- "I am the only one, among all my school friends, that could import this model"

regards,

Carlos

[Gordy]

I understand your enthusiasm, however there are many potential problems...

Most people here at DiyAudio enjoy technical design, but most people do not enjoy marketing, accounting, parts-purchasing, assembly, distribution, logistics, etc., etc.

How would you organise an international business? Who would make the investment? How would you split the financial rewards?

Which products would you choose (because you can not have just one)? Who are your customers? How to communicate with them? How to 'proove' your product? What about warranty? How would you attract dealers? Where would you advertise?

...and what about world recession?


My advice: if you want to make amplifiers then do it as a very specialised business from home. Make the best, sell direct, sell a very small number at premium price. Make it look superb. Target the wealthy who want good aesthetics, big box, and personal service. Disassociate (professionally) from DIY. Do not use audiophile (b_llshit) advertising hype. Promote via 6-Moons and similar. Promote by stealth internet forum placement. Expect to sell 3 in your first year, maybe 6 in your second year, and no more than 12 per year when you are established. Make sure the parts and enclosure sum cost is less than Euro 1500, then sell it for Euro 6000.

Be happy,
G

[destroyer X]

to earn money...here is for fun...our partners in this dream.

Wealthy audiophiles may be the best target.

Reason why i told you to enter the Audio Amateur Clube from Athens.... they are not the only one... they are almost the same around the world... changes language only..... this one is near you dear Sakis.

The Greek Audiophile Club is here, posted into youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

regards,

Carlos



.................................................. .........................

[sakis]

one thing we monitor very cerfully in my company is WHERE OUR COSTUMERS COME FROM .

you will not belive how many of our costumers is diy audio "readers" meaning that they are people that dont have design or construct skills BUT the actually understand audio terms and follow discussions closely and learn to evaluate things regarding amps and or other issues .

costumers like that have absolutely no issues about brand names and will prefer to have a DX amplifier in their living room than a sony .

As about the comments regarding our forum and generally the diy community i totally agree and thats why at the OP i said that " i am sorry this is all hypothetical and i dont even know if its right to place here )

as about logistics is not going to be that difficult i think what i had in mind goes like that

three people arround the world will have to make the example amplifier all of them in the same pcb all of them in the same box all of them in the same construction and quality they will all distribute in their area make a profit for the construction and share a profit with the designers

box construction and material have to be common ...... optimization for a comercial version has to be comon and for a hand made amplifier has to be kinda lofty prize so amrgin for some profit has to be more or less enough ....

thats just an idea ...doesnt realy have to be like that

[sakis]

Originally posted by destroyer X



The Greek Audiophile Club is here, posted into youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

regards,

Carlos

well sorry uncle charly ....i will never be a part of exotic audio my estimation is that a DX amplifier should be a luxury afortable for the average hifier

my amps constructed for costumers on demand was never exotic .... there were simply a nice hifi device ...

[destroyer X]

There are much more international DIYers using.

I think they are happy... i am fell always happy when listening to it... a very pleasant sound.

Have you listened a Dx Amplifier dear Sakis?

regards,

Carlos

[sakis]

uncle charly ..... if the dx amplifier is too be produced i can guarantee you that will make a hell of lot of new friends like that ...

at his range i think that the DX is the best amplifier presented in a DIY community

regards sakis

[Greg Erskine]

hi sakis,

Bad idea.

As soon as you try to make money from the DIY community you will loose more friends than you gain. Even with the best intentions, you will be seen by some as trying to rip people off by making money from other people's ideas.

We lost many good members 3 or 4 years ago over a few members trying to make some money from DIY ideas and input from members. Money clouds people's judgement severely IMHO.

As soon as you start to make money (not necessarily profit) you need to do things like purchase software, register as a company for taxation purposes, pay people for help. It's just not worth it (in Australia anyway).

Once you start to commercialise a product you then start talking about IP, copyright, you start keeping secrets that give you an edge over the competition, that really annoys lots of people.

If you want to make money, get a second job.

regards