lets make things bit more clear ....
1) this all story is not especially about the dx amp ...since this is all hypothetical it could be any amp
2) as about me and words mentioned like RD, agenta,business,boss, and many others i a can asure that since i operate my company since i was 18 and today 43 and stil running like hell most of these issues are allready solved .
3) we allready produce amplifiers on demand any way ( meaning that we produced amplifiers on demand cause of size, specs ,material , or other special features )
4) to example this we produced amps for own use for PA rentals costum made amplifiers to fit a specific speaker , costum made 100V amplifiers , some A40 amplifiers by NP (costum specs ) and many many others very very often .
5) now days we make this and many other things and we noticed that except vintage repairs and upgrades that actually produce a hell of a lot of money for my comapny there is a tention from hifiers to like very much hand made equipment because not only how it looks but also how it sounds
6) the average hifier in my country is sure that it is better to own a hand made DX amp ( example ) that produces 60+60 watts than a sony amp that produces 100+100W
the idea was to take opinion by other people if there is similar tention in other places and so on an on .....and since there is a demand for a thing like that in my country why not that the amp is going to be a DX or similar prooven design that has been extenisvely talked out here and totally debaged .....
thanks sakis
1) this all story is not especially about the dx amp ...since this is all hypothetical it could be any amp
2) as about me and words mentioned like RD, agenta,business,boss, and many others i a can asure that since i operate my company since i was 18 and today 43 and stil running like hell most of these issues are allready solved .
3) we allready produce amplifiers on demand any way ( meaning that we produced amplifiers on demand cause of size, specs ,material , or other special features )
4) to example this we produced amps for own use for PA rentals costum made amplifiers to fit a specific speaker , costum made 100V amplifiers , some A40 amplifiers by NP (costum specs ) and many many others very very often .
5) now days we make this and many other things and we noticed that except vintage repairs and upgrades that actually produce a hell of a lot of money for my comapny there is a tention from hifiers to like very much hand made equipment because not only how it looks but also how it sounds
6) the average hifier in my country is sure that it is better to own a hand made DX amp ( example ) that produces 60+60 watts than a sony amp that produces 100+100W
the idea was to take opinion by other people if there is similar tention in other places and so on an on .....and since there is a demand for a thing like that in my country why not that the amp is going to be a DX or similar prooven design that has been extenisvely talked out here and totally debaged .....
thanks sakis
Here is different..audiophiles here just know how to listen
they usually does not have technical skills.... do not even know how to compare things (this is very basic thing)... they understand specifications (and those are usually lyes and manipulated wrong numbers here) and they evaluate by Brand names and prices.... alike indians watching a computer...very sad thing.
They give value if the equipment is heavy.... so it is a good idea to install lead inside or a stone panel.
They give value if equipment is Mcintosh...no one other has value here....in my surroundings..my town...my place...and the people i know....of course may exist other clubs, closed groups, with better skilled people...i just do not know them.
Maybe Carlmart, from our forum, living into Rio de Janeiro, can inform better things about Brazilian audiophile.... here is a tragedy..my place is a terrible desert related knowledge.... one of the best non expert guy i know loves Sony and thinks no one makes better...so ... you see how terrible is the sittuation here.... i have found 6..but those are so nearby friends that our knowledge is, now a days, the same...a very special case.... exception....others are alike Greek audiophile club.....anti static powder..... good voltage to good sound...and so on... some no sense beliefs, big magic and myths.
Sony is good for them...not for me..despite i have worked for Sony for years long...even have met Japanese designs in Japan..visiting the factory and design department...at least they match speaker with amplifiers..and this was judged not only with instruments but asking factory workers to sit into the listening room to listen and evaluate many options.
The normal, non audíophile folks wants loud and clipped sound (clipped sound seems loud to them...and makes sense because the average power increased into distortion and the enormous quantity of harmonics present into clipped square waves) ..they will never pay more than a system for anything customized...because a mini system offers CD player,DVD player... terrible awfull Ipod inputs..memory card input... sometimes have old Cassete..speakers, FM and AM tuner, fancy small speaker with surrounding channels... and of course pré and power amplifier included into the case, supply and all stuff... lamps flashing... those things...plastzillas!...so... seems to them it is stupid to pay more for a single power amplifier...they will ask:
- Where's the other parts?... will they come in separates. inside a big box?
Ignorance is a very sad thing
Carlos
they usually does not have technical skills.... do not even know how to compare things (this is very basic thing)... they understand specifications (and those are usually lyes and manipulated wrong numbers here) and they evaluate by Brand names and prices.... alike indians watching a computer...very sad thing.
They give value if the equipment is heavy.... so it is a good idea to install lead inside or a stone panel.
They give value if equipment is Mcintosh...no one other has value here....in my surroundings..my town...my place...and the people i know....of course may exist other clubs, closed groups, with better skilled people...i just do not know them.
Maybe Carlmart, from our forum, living into Rio de Janeiro, can inform better things about Brazilian audiophile.... here is a tragedy..my place is a terrible desert related knowledge.... one of the best non expert guy i know loves Sony and thinks no one makes better...so ... you see how terrible is the sittuation here.... i have found 6..but those are so nearby friends that our knowledge is, now a days, the same...a very special case.... exception....others are alike Greek audiophile club.....anti static powder..... good voltage to good sound...and so on... some no sense beliefs, big magic and myths.
Sony is good for them...not for me..despite i have worked for Sony for years long...even have met Japanese designs in Japan..visiting the factory and design department...at least they match speaker with amplifiers..and this was judged not only with instruments but asking factory workers to sit into the listening room to listen and evaluate many options.
The normal, non audíophile folks wants loud and clipped sound (clipped sound seems loud to them...and makes sense because the average power increased into distortion and the enormous quantity of harmonics present into clipped square waves) ..they will never pay more than a system for anything customized...because a mini system offers CD player,DVD player... terrible awfull Ipod inputs..memory card input... sometimes have old Cassete..speakers, FM and AM tuner, fancy small speaker with surrounding channels... and of course pré and power amplifier included into the case, supply and all stuff... lamps flashing... those things...plastzillas!...so... seems to them it is stupid to pay more for a single power amplifier...they will ask:
- Where's the other parts?... will they come in separates. inside a big box?
Ignorance is a very sad thing
Carlos
Hello Carlos
Commercial amps do follow this way of buying from most peoples, you will see big shiny aluminium case, complicated circuits most to impress buyers and justify the high prices, with nice inside amp photos to give a look of big R&D and to justify outragous high prices, and despite complicated circuits many of thoses costly amps sound plain and dull...
There was a loudspeaker sold at $36,000, it was far far to sound good enough to be sold at $36,000, parts and R&D did really not cost even 1/10 of that price.
Like all past years I've goes to the Montreal audio show, this years, again, there was lot of snakes oils salesmen who was telling incridible nonsenses about their products or about electronics.
So we can't change the market, and most peoples will not listen to you and me and they will rush to an audio store to listen to a salesman.
So, doing business by selling amps or any audio equipments are more a job of public relations, marquetings, nice looking products etc... That is far from our diy world.
Bye
Gaetan
Commercial amps do follow this way of buying from most peoples, you will see big shiny aluminium case, complicated circuits most to impress buyers and justify the high prices, with nice inside amp photos to give a look of big R&D and to justify outragous high prices, and despite complicated circuits many of thoses costly amps sound plain and dull...
There was a loudspeaker sold at $36,000, it was far far to sound good enough to be sold at $36,000, parts and R&D did really not cost even 1/10 of that price.
Like all past years I've goes to the Montreal audio show, this years, again, there was lot of snakes oils salesmen who was telling incridible nonsenses about their products or about electronics.
So we can't change the market, and most peoples will not listen to you and me and they will rush to an audio store to listen to a salesman.
So, doing business by selling amps or any audio equipments are more a job of public relations, marquetings, nice looking products etc... That is far from our diy world.
Bye
Gaetan
Aahh at last a topic that is closer to my day to day skill. I agree with Gaetan8888 that a successful business plan has more to do with the getting the value chain right than the actual product itself. I.e: The sourcing of resources (components & labour), manufacturing process, marketing, distribution, billing, customer service etc etc etc.
In most cases you can outsource or simply re-badge existing products and still have a killer business.
So high end products often go for a niche market (people who are willing to pay more for a specific need or quality) and often espouse some unrivalled technical or other quality.
But even this notion of "high end" is mostly marketing that has enormous influence even at the design stage. So as Gaetan888 suggests, if the niche market includes those who want "engineering excellence" and are happy to pay for it then the way an amp looks on the inside will be heavily influenced by the creative product marketers. Why else do we find red PCB's with beautifully arranged components and attractive covers over ugly components.
The DIY computer industry seems to know this better than anyone.
As controversial as this will be perceived by some, even the credible engineering descriptions of an amplifiers attributes were created in the marketing department first then given to an attractive "engineer" to present.
But it's not all doom and gloom, you just have to know how to play the game. So if you target the "niche market" at DIYA or other enthusiasts and understand what their emotional needs are you could create a commercial business. A kit or modular approach may be better than a complete unit. In this way customers could select from a range of compatible modules to achieve the customised result they desire.
After all most of us are here because we want to be different and do not want to acccept seemingly mainstream products.
Cheers
Q
In most cases you can outsource or simply re-badge existing products and still have a killer business.
So high end products often go for a niche market (people who are willing to pay more for a specific need or quality) and often espouse some unrivalled technical or other quality.
But even this notion of "high end" is mostly marketing that has enormous influence even at the design stage. So as Gaetan888 suggests, if the niche market includes those who want "engineering excellence" and are happy to pay for it then the way an amp looks on the inside will be heavily influenced by the creative product marketers. Why else do we find red PCB's with beautifully arranged components and attractive covers over ugly components.
The DIY computer industry seems to know this better than anyone.
As controversial as this will be perceived by some, even the credible engineering descriptions of an amplifiers attributes were created in the marketing department first then given to an attractive "engineer" to present.
But it's not all doom and gloom, you just have to know how to play the game. So if you target the "niche market" at DIYA or other enthusiasts and understand what their emotional needs are you could create a commercial business. A kit or modular approach may be better than a complete unit. In this way customers could select from a range of compatible modules to achieve the customised result they desire.
After all most of us are here because we want to be different and do not want to acccept seemingly mainstream products.
Cheers
Q
Hello Quasi
Kit are a tough business, because diyer expect to pay low prices for a kit and because of the after sales services.
Hugh Dean did stop Aksa kit because of the very time consuming of the sales supports, now he sell the Life Force amp and others fully built products.
Not all kits buyer are enough experiments in diying and it need lot of times and emails to support them.
A fully built and tested amps modules could be easyer to manage.
Bye
Gaetan
Kit are a tough business, because diyer expect to pay low prices for a kit and because of the after sales services.
Hugh Dean did stop Aksa kit because of the very time consuming of the sales supports, now he sell the Life Force amp and others fully built products.
Not all kits buyer are enough experiments in diying and it need lot of times and emails to support them.
A fully built and tested amps modules could be easyer to manage.
Bye
Gaetan
there is a difference between hobby enjoyment & business.
Here u make friends.
In business u hv customers.
U love ur customer till u make profit.
friendship is forever.
Many people build houses costing so high that it is cheaper to live in a 5 star hotel in less money than the interest of investment in home.
Better we should not mix this things.
technical people r less business minded. Except few. They r more interested in satisfaction they get from their work.
Commercial people make more money & try to buy satisfaction from outside.
Here u make friends.
In business u hv customers.
U love ur customer till u make profit.
friendship is forever.
Many people build houses costing so high that it is cheaper to live in a 5 star hotel in less money than the interest of investment in home.
Better we should not mix this things.
technical people r less business minded. Except few. They r more interested in satisfaction they get from their work.
Commercial people make more money & try to buy satisfaction from outside.
SAYINGS OF THE SEVEN SAGES OF GREECE
1) ÅÓÔÅ ÅÃÊÑÁÔÅÉÓ = Be abstemious
2) ÌÇÄÅÍ ÁÃÁÍ = Avoid excesses
3) ÌÅÔÑÏÍ ÁÑÉÓÔÏÍ = All things in moderation.
Especially in the third saying, the word "ÌÅÔÑÏÍ" was one of the five main features of ancient Greek culture. This means the love of moderation and harmony, inside the avoidance of excessive (I hope you understand it translated into English).
When Alexander the Great besieged Gaza of Palestine, the ambassadors of the besieged they asked him "what is the highest value for the Greeks". His reply was: "ÔÏ ÌÅÔÑÏÍ" (although he did not had it sufficiently, in fact).
All the above are a good lesson for all. And i wrote them to read first of all, me.
bye - bye
Fotios
1) ÅÓÔÅ ÅÃÊÑÁÔÅÉÓ = Be abstemious
2) ÌÇÄÅÍ ÁÃÁÍ = Avoid excesses
3) ÌÅÔÑÏÍ ÁÑÉÓÔÏÍ = All things in moderation.
Especially in the third saying, the word "ÌÅÔÑÏÍ" was one of the five main features of ancient Greek culture. This means the love of moderation and harmony, inside the avoidance of excessive (I hope you understand it translated into English).
When Alexander the Great besieged Gaza of Palestine, the ambassadors of the besieged they asked him "what is the highest value for the Greeks". His reply was: "ÔÏ ÌÅÔÑÏÍ" (although he did not had it sufficiently, in fact).
All the above are a good lesson for all. And i wrote them to read first of all, me.
bye - bye
Fotios
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