Solid electrolitics vs audio grade electrolitc capacitors

[gto127]

Hello everyone. Just curious if anyone has tried the new solid electrolitic caps for audio applications-ie preamps,cd players or amps & how they compare to the audio grade lytics such as elna and nichicon muse. These are the new caps that most of the manufacturers are putting in motherboards on computers now because to their much longer lifespan and better frequency characteristics. I looked some up on digokey or mouser one & they were expensive & didn't have very high voltage..

[eclectic2k]

they are great caps. solid/organic such as OS-CON
low ESR, high ripple current, high reliability...
We are using some at my work now. (non audio)

I recently bought a few small ones, but have not tried them out yet in anything.
They *should* work well and sound good in place of most electrolytics (since they will typically be lower ESR) if you can get them in suitable ratings. They are as you said, mostly small, low V.

-CK

[gpapag]

Hi all
After a fast googling, I quote from this site:

The electrolytic capacitors are roughly divided into two types according to the kind of the electrolyte layer; a liquid electrolytic capacitor whose capacitor element includes an electrolyte layer (electrolyte) made of a liquid material, and having a conductive mechanism mainly using ionic conduction, and a solid electrolytic capacitor whose capacitor element includes an electrolyte layer (solid electrolyte layer) made of a solid material such as complex salt or conductive high polymer, and having a conductive mechanism mainly using electron conduction. Electronic devices are being designed to operate at higher and higher frequencies; consequently, capacitors as an electronic component are being required to have excellent impedance characteristics in higher frequencies than before. In order to meet this demand, various types of solid electrolytic capacitors are being developed which have a solid electrolyte made of conductive polymer high in electric conductivity.

The key and surprising difference is electron conduction (solid electrolytic capacitor) versus ionic conduction (liquid electrolytic capacitor).

God is dead, Marx is dead, Gold (see Golden Boys) gets corroded and now electron conduction within a capacitor dielectric!

Nowhere to stand. Where are we heading as a society?

oscon

Regards
George

[gto127]

"I recently bought a few small ones, but have not tried them out yet in anything."
Please let me know when if you try these out I am considering refurbishing my older audio equipment at some time & would require alot of caps. Also does anyone know the specicific characteristics or specs you look for in an audio grade cap. I have heard that most comp grade has low esr but doesn't sound quite as good as audio grade in high end stuff.
Here are a couple of specs but I don't know how to deciper them.:

Nichicom KW audio series 330uf 16v
Tan=.20
Leakage current =3uA
Ripple current= 256mA
No esr data

Nichicon LG Conductive Polymer 330uf16v(solid type)
Tan=.08
Leakage current= 1056uA
Ripple current=4700mA
ESR 13mohms

[poynton]

I read somewhere recently (on this forum?) that the new solid polymer SEP OsCons (not the old type) were as good as Black Gates for bypassing, filtering etc.

The downside is the limited capacity and voltage ranges.
They are also a bit pricy but so were Black Gates!!!

Andy

[eclectic2k]

Originally posted by gto127
Here are a couple of specs but I don't know how to deciper them.:

Nichicom KW audio series 330uf 16v
Tan=.20
No esr data

Nichicon LG Conductive Polymer 330uf16v(solid type)
Tan=.08
ESR 13mohms

That's tan theta (tan ð) it says much more than ESR

see here:
Me and my Tan Theta Meter (Capacitor tester)

or here:
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/...iderations.htm

or google for others. In the first cap the ESR is probably not so good that they bother to mention it independently. You can use tan theta to calculate it though. (the ripple current rating gives a big clue as well)

-Chris

[jwb]

These caps are vastly superior to ordinary aluminum electrolytic caps. They are durable and have unlimited shelf life. The only drawback is their expense.

[gto127]

What abput the relatively high leakage current of the solid types? Wouldn't that be a negative or am I looking at the spec wrong?

[jwb]

For power supplies leakage is irrelevant. If you're trying to make an integrator or a sample-and-hold, you wouldn't use solid polymer, but you also would not have used an aluminum electrolytic in those applications either.

[gto127]

What about power consumption? Since they (solid type caps) are ultra low esr would it possibly put a strain on older circuitry that has regular caps?