Hi Folks,
i have a problem that i can't figure out.
I recently bought an external soundcard: EMU Tracker PRE.
Just a quick note for who would like to buy it: Don't!
The company is having some serious problems and apparently they don't have a customer service anymore.
They supposedly deal through their website: but they really don't!
I was planning on use the EMU along with SpectraPlus to make THD analysis.
Unfortunatelly with Vista, I couldn't set sampling rate over 44.1KHz, so I had to install XP and finally i could freely choose whatever sampling rate was avaliable.
Interesting aspect is that analysis performed on XP and Vista, for the same parameters, showed DIFFERENT results! (?)
Anyways, in both cases, SNR, seemed to be below specifications.
Therefore i have hooked the output of the soundcard to the oscilloscope to check if there was anything wrong with that.
Surprisingly i got 200mV of output noise!
Since i don't have a spectrum analyzer, I had to arrange an LPF and adjust for frequency to see if the noise was entirely outside audio band or not.
Unfortunatelly with a 20KHz LPF cut frequency, the output noise is reduced, but not gone (still 30mVpk-pk !).
Strange fact though is that, if i try to connect an headset or hook it to my stereo system i don't hear any strong noise (acytually just a very little smaaaaall hiss on the tweeter with the ear by the speakier).
I am going to attach an URL with pictures of the set up used for the self test, screenshoots of settings on SpectraPlus and of the self-loop-test and a picture of the output noise.
http://s678.photobucket.com/albums/vv147/Stefanoo_2009/
I sincerely don't know if the card is defective or not.
If you guys have any kind of advice, please feel free to post here.
Thank you very much in advance for the attention paid.
Best,
i have a problem that i can't figure out.
I recently bought an external soundcard: EMU Tracker PRE.
Just a quick note for who would like to buy it: Don't!
The company is having some serious problems and apparently they don't have a customer service anymore.
They supposedly deal through their website: but they really don't!
I was planning on use the EMU along with SpectraPlus to make THD analysis.
Unfortunatelly with Vista, I couldn't set sampling rate over 44.1KHz, so I had to install XP and finally i could freely choose whatever sampling rate was avaliable.
Interesting aspect is that analysis performed on XP and Vista, for the same parameters, showed DIFFERENT results! (?)
Anyways, in both cases, SNR, seemed to be below specifications.
Therefore i have hooked the output of the soundcard to the oscilloscope to check if there was anything wrong with that.
Surprisingly i got 200mV of output noise!
Since i don't have a spectrum analyzer, I had to arrange an LPF and adjust for frequency to see if the noise was entirely outside audio band or not.
Unfortunatelly with a 20KHz LPF cut frequency, the output noise is reduced, but not gone (still 30mVpk-pk !).
Strange fact though is that, if i try to connect an headset or hook it to my stereo system i don't hear any strong noise (acytually just a very little smaaaaall hiss on the tweeter with the ear by the speakier).
I am going to attach an URL with pictures of the set up used for the self test, screenshoots of settings on SpectraPlus and of the self-loop-test and a picture of the output noise.
http://s678.photobucket.com/albums/vv147/Stefanoo_2009/
I sincerely don't know if the card is defective or not.
If you guys have any kind of advice, please feel free to post here.
Thank you very much in advance for the attention paid.
Best,
Your result is very good, I would say. Do not forget that SNR is calculated over whole band (i.e. 24kHz in your case) and includes distortion! (that's how the SW works).
In case you want to know SNR, measure at -60db input signal level and add 60dB to SNR reading. This is also the method recommended by standards.
In case you want to know SNR, measure at -60db input signal level and add 60dB to SNR reading. This is also the method recommended by standards.
Hi Stefano
I have the EMU 0404, which is same in performance with Tracker, except than it offers more possibilities like phantom power, led bargraphs etc. You must know probably. The main issue is that EMU0404 and Tracker have the same maximum 24bit/196KHz rates, as well the same distortion etc.
I have bought the "Virtins M.I. Pro3" and i have tried "Spectra Plus" also with my EMU.
I can confirm you that with both softwares, these cards can operate at their MAXIMUM RATES with amazing good results and that their performance is a little worse from professional spectrum analyzers. Don't believe those replies that are written from other people. Me, in this forum and at the moment, i am the only that i have tried the possibilities of these softs in conjuction with EMU in practice.
The secret to you get these maximum rates, simply it is the O.S. of your PC as well the installed DRAM. To the present, the most reliable OS for such type rates, is the WinXP x64 (NOT 64bit VISTA). Yes, a 64bit OS, in conjuction with 8GB DDRAM (x64 can manage up to 128GB DRAM instead WinXP) can run these applications ON THE FLY without the need of use the swap file. Only under this way you can run analysis in 24bit/196KHz which gives BY FAR BETTER AND RELIABLE RESULTS from 32bit systems. If your PC can't run x64, then you must do an upgrade.
Because i had the same problem like you with Virtins MI Pro 3, after enough e-mail exchanges with the company, we had resulted in this solution described above.
The same suggestion i received from Visionics because the simulator of my EDA software EDWinXP 1.5 presented hang-ups.
Thus, i was forced to built a new PC pure 64bit before one year (its cost was then 850 euros, now must be arround 300 euros as much) and when this done, then everything went well.
I got my "doct" diploma after one year of continuous trials and study on these systems.
You may ask Virtins Tec. for Fotios Anagnostou from Greece, to will get a confirmation for those i wrote above, that they are real and not aerology.
Regs
Fotios
I have the EMU 0404, which is same in performance with Tracker, except than it offers more possibilities like phantom power, led bargraphs etc. You must know probably. The main issue is that EMU0404 and Tracker have the same maximum 24bit/196KHz rates, as well the same distortion etc.
I have bought the "Virtins M.I. Pro3" and i have tried "Spectra Plus" also with my EMU.
I can confirm you that with both softwares, these cards can operate at their MAXIMUM RATES with amazing good results and that their performance is a little worse from professional spectrum analyzers. Don't believe those replies that are written from other people. Me, in this forum and at the moment, i am the only that i have tried the possibilities of these softs in conjuction with EMU in practice.
The secret to you get these maximum rates, simply it is the O.S. of your PC as well the installed DRAM. To the present, the most reliable OS for such type rates, is the WinXP x64 (NOT 64bit VISTA). Yes, a 64bit OS, in conjuction with 8GB DDRAM (x64 can manage up to 128GB DRAM instead WinXP) can run these applications ON THE FLY without the need of use the swap file. Only under this way you can run analysis in 24bit/196KHz which gives BY FAR BETTER AND RELIABLE RESULTS from 32bit systems. If your PC can't run x64, then you must do an upgrade.
Because i had the same problem like you with Virtins MI Pro 3, after enough e-mail exchanges with the company, we had resulted in this solution described above.
The same suggestion i received from Visionics because the simulator of my EDA software EDWinXP 1.5 presented hang-ups.
Thus, i was forced to built a new PC pure 64bit before one year (its cost was then 850 euros, now must be arround 300 euros as much) and when this done, then everything went well.
I got my "doct" diploma after one year of continuous trials and study on these systems.
You may ask Virtins Tec. for Fotios Anagnostou from Greece, to will get a confirmation for those i wrote above, that they are real and not aerology.
Regs
Fotios
Hi,
thank you very much for your anwer.
You described the problem very well.
I can't run X64 since i have a 32bit uP (dual core T2450 2GHz) too bad!
I might consider as a future upgrade what you've just suggested.
I have noticed, speaking of different performance on different plattforms, that i get better results on Vista than on XP for the same settings.
I wil start playing around with the card and maybe i will post some autoloop tests on this 3d....in case anybody would like to compare results.
thank you very much for your anwer.
You described the problem very well.
I can't run X64 since i have a 32bit uP (dual core T2450 2GHz) too bad!
I might consider as a future upgrade what you've just suggested.
I have noticed, speaking of different performance on different plattforms, that i get better results on Vista than on XP for the same settings.
I wil start playing around with the card and maybe i will post some autoloop tests on this 3d....in case anybody would like to compare results.
Stefanoo said:
Xp Pro 32bit P4 3GHz 1GB mem
Settings on Spectraplus demo as yours, only 96kHz, 48kHz would not run on 24bits.
Left channel only using a short coax on jacks I just made for it, so to avoid longer cable and RCA to XLR adapter for input, and RCA to Jack for output that I had. I post one from ARTA too, that did the 48k/24.THD is REALLY far worse than yours. Any ideas of how I can do better with dated PC and notebook?
My input pot is at minimum and ''Direct Monitor'' disabled.
Hi,
i will give you some advice that i am sure they will fix your problem since if i haven't understood wrong you have the same plattform as i have (win vista 32bit).
Assuming you have the latest firmware and the latest EMU drivers downloaded, then......to bad...you are busted
apparently with the previous releases you woundn't have had this problem.
But anyways there is a solution for it:
step 1: select desidered sample freq on EMU control panel (i would suggest 48KHz since that is the freq where i get best results: i suppose if i would have had the sistem of the other guy i mean X64 8GB and so on...maybe an advanced setting would have offered better performance)
step 2: select the same sample freq on Spectra settings
step 3: select on spectra plus under options menu -> devices
step 4: click on adjust gain and then double click on EMU (you have to do the same thing for both input and output)
step 5: select advance tab on the menu will pop up
step 6: finally select the same mode you are going to use coherenlty with the frequency previosly chosen.
That's it.
I think that you will be able to properly run.
Let me know if this work and please post the autoloop test with those settings so that we can compare..but you are likely going to have the same performance...which.....as PMA said....is very good (on Vista with the right settings i get -150dB noise floor....which is excellent)
Hope this helps.
i will give you some advice that i am sure they will fix your problem since if i haven't understood wrong you have the same plattform as i have (win vista 32bit).
Assuming you have the latest firmware and the latest EMU drivers downloaded, then......to bad...you are busted
apparently with the previous releases you woundn't have had this problem.
But anyways there is a solution for it:
step 1: select desidered sample freq on EMU control panel (i would suggest 48KHz since that is the freq where i get best results: i suppose if i would have had the sistem of the other guy i mean X64 8GB and so on...maybe an advanced setting would have offered better performance)
step 2: select the same sample freq on Spectra settings
step 3: select on spectra plus under options menu -> devices
step 4: click on adjust gain and then double click on EMU (you have to do the same thing for both input and output)
step 5: select advance tab on the menu will pop up
step 6: finally select the same mode you are going to use coherenlty with the frequency previosly chosen.
That's it.
I think that you will be able to properly run.
Let me know if this work and please post the autoloop test with those settings so that we can compare..but you are likely going to have the same performance...which.....as PMA said....is very good (on Vista with the right settings i get -150dB noise floor....which is excellent)
Hope this helps.
Will do what you suggest and let you know. For noise my particular PC system and tracker pre does not do too bad, my THD is still not in your system's and settings league...For what I see, it is highly unlike that we have some problematic Emu's. My tracker firmware is 8.40 from its package CD rom. There is some update on Emu's server:
E-MU® 0202 / 0404 / Tracker Pre USB Web Install Package v1.3
Date: 2/1/2008
Size: 69.8 MB
That is the one to avoid?
E-MU® 0202 / 0404 / Tracker Pre USB Web Install Package v1.3
Date: 2/1/2008
Size: 69.8 MB
That is the one to avoid?
Stefanoo said:you have the same plattform as i have (win vista 32bit).
Assuming you have the latest firmware and the latest EMU drivers downloaded, then......to bad...you are busted
apparently with the previous releases you woundn't have had this problem.
I have Windows XP professional 32 bit actually. I get slightly better THD at -10dB 0.00053%), but the posted pic is at -9 to keep up with your exact settings. Also tried PMA's suggestion for calculating SNR at -60dB signal and then adding 60. It showed 61dB so that makes it 121dB for such a way. Thanks Stefano!
M-AUDIO Audiophile 192
192KHz/24bit
Which is why a sound card will never reach the performance of a dedicated audio spectrum analyzer.
PS1: Went so far that I tested a Lynx L22 (don't have the graphs at hand) supposingly the best of the bests (it better be for $600). It sucks as well, at 192KHz/24bit noise floor is -110dB and THD is around 10ppm. Not much better than the M-Audio Audiophile 192 card.
192KHz/24bit
Which is why a sound card will never reach the performance of a dedicated audio spectrum analyzer.
PS1: Went so far that I tested a Lynx L22 (don't have the graphs at hand) supposingly the best of the bests (it better be for $600). It sucks as well, at 192KHz/24bit noise floor is -110dB and THD is around 10ppm. Not much better than the M-Audio Audiophile 192 card.
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