5000 Watts @ 0.2 ohms!

[syn08]

Originally posted by AudioAcdc

Actually the final product had few stages of development including: Scientific research of Faculty of Electrical Engineering in Skopje of behavior and characteristic of last technology achievement of Trench Mosfet Transistors, temperature behavior of the same component, current characteristic

There are no more than three possibilities here:

A) You use a patented new device in the trench MOSFET class.
B) You are an engineer as much as I am the King of Brunei
C) You are spreading :bs: for marketing purpose (next time don't forget to use "ZGNFB enabled" @Bonsai 2008)

Trench MOSFETs in their various incarnations (VMOS, UMOS) are among the worst (read: nonlinear) devices for audio. They were designed exclusively for switching purposes and are currently obsolete, at least those built on silicon.

[boraomega]

Strange, but you are not on the list of exhibitors in Eureka 2007?

http://www.brussels-eureka.be/Exhibitors2007.aspx

[megajocke]

Trench mosfets also have very poor SOA in linear applications...


But still, the claims of high efficency from a non-switching amplifier? That's physically impossible.

[AudioAcdc]

Dear All,

My colleague Ivan Popovic has had intention to explain some achievements in our design and some advantages of 5000W@0,2 ohm amplifier. I will be little bit simply and little bit certain.

But first I must answer some questions and doubts from forum.

To Mr. “boraomega “:

We were with: State Office of Industrial Property; Republic of Macedonia. They are on list in Innova at row http://www.brussels-innova.be/Exhibitors2007.aspx. You can get The Awards list 2007 on request from them.

Another awards (newest) is: iENA Nuremberg (Golden Medal 2008), ARKA-Zagreb 2008 Golden Medal and Belgrade Invation Fair NIKOLA TESLA 2008 Golden Medal.

To Mr. Sakis:

In Macedonia we are still using good analog Dolby CP65 SR Processors (4.1 and 5.1). Mainly they are working with only one surround channel. All halls are with 600 seats and more. So we have always more than twelve speakers around.

Now:

I don’t know how more of you are familiar with articles from
Dr. W. Marshall Leach (specially “Build a Double Barreled Amplifier” known like “Leach Super Amp”). His opinion is that build good Amp with MOSFET is too risky and that MOSFET s can’t be controlled like transistors.

It is true and it was our challenge.

We had begun with HEXACOOL MOSFETs (Mr. Nelson Pass).

Here I must remark that before 5 years this Amp cannot possible be built because of technology of Mos Fet production.

Yes, Trench Fets are invented for switching supplies but they have something very special for us: Extremely low Rds-on.

Yes I know. You will say: How you control this element? To “turn on” the Fet is relatively easy. But to “turn off” the same Fet, is heavier. To “drive” them in linear regime in SOA (Safe Operating Area): it is very difficult.
All electronic designers know this pain and troubles. Furthermore when we are talking about big amount like 2000W audio power and more, were nature (primitive) state beginning to be unimportant; it is only a another trouble to solve.
What about distortions? Have you ever made measurement when you have connected 3000W load?

In one word: It is named a invention and patent.

Dear all, audio is our love and we had solved all these challenges.

Believe us: we are trying now to find good partner or investor. It is our goal now. Noting else. Here in Macedonia we can organize very chip production or we can make any reasonable agreement for cooperation.

We are hoping that our AMP will live own live with us.

Vangjel
www.audioacdc.com
www.acdcprotection.com

[zoranaudio]

[/B][/QUOTE]Trench mosfets also have very poor SOA in linear applications...
But still, the claims of high efficency from a non-switching amplifier? That's physically impossible.
That's physically impossible. [/B][/QUOTE]


Everything is impossible until it's not made

[darian]

To Zoranaudio,

No, non switching and low dissipation is not impossible because it's not been done before, it's impossible because of Ohm's law. There is no way around it, if you are in a non switching type the closest thing being linear and energy conscious is B class and the max efficiency is 71%. That's a fact of physics. The only obvious things you can do to limit power dissipation are these sliding bias stuff and sliding PSU stuff, but anyway the efficiency won't be above 71% at a given time.
I mean, it would be a whole new class of amplification defying laws of physics here. And there has been mostly nothing new for many decades in that area (yes, class D is old, feedforward is old, etc...).
If it is true, so let's say you are geniuses, it's not to be excluded.

Beyond the class type consideration, I still wonder how you can pipe more than 100A in that tiny box and not produce heat without using switching technology. Actually, even with a stellar 99% efficiency, 5000W would produce heat anyway and how could your little radiator and fan handle that in the long run? Are you well above 99% of efficiency?

So maybe you can give us just a little hint about how it is working, without spoiling your patent. It would be appreciated and it would finally show us everything you say is true? Can you?

Regards

[zoranaudio]

Obviously you quote to wrong person
I'd like to answer, but sorry I don't know.
This is not my invention, so I can't say anything.
Maybe audio acdc will explain some more.
I just wanted to make this amp. cos it is a very nice to drive with low impedance.
I am planning to use this amp. to drive more bass drivers(subwoofers) in parallel with low rail voltages +/- 35 to +/- 90 VDC. - maybe 8 woofers 15" or 18" to get high spl or earthquake.
I don't like any surround system,I Just love to listen 2 speakers for normal relaxing, and sometimes to listen Rock parties with more than 120 db spl

[darian]

Ok, sorry Zoran,
so my question is for AudioAcdc,

Another thing that is bugging me is that you mention the great importance of the Rds-on in you design. Typically, this parameter is important in switching situation. So would your amplifier be of the switching type somehow?

Regards

[sakis]

looking at bob's history which is a certified legend if not god you will find that he was a pioneer of class d even when he tried to make classG amps with bipolar transistors switching rail voltage even in small systems .......

later on digital technology made his dream possible and he made then the true sub and another more big amplifier claimed to produce some 2.500 watts @ 0.5 ohms while the transistors of the device where simply screwed to the bottom of the box for heatsink....

MY first reaction when i see th inside of the amp was the this guy is full of poupou !!!! and i thought that this amp was able of totaly some 100w audio per channel .....

then again bob had the dignity to put inside his equipment a sheet explaining the class G history and then actualy the class d history which in his words is called track down conversion....

After reading this i understood that i was wrong and he was right ...farther more, tests with loads of speakers connected in parallel to reach 1 ohm prooved that all said was totally correct .

At the time my sound expirience was not enough to tell if the amp was playing good or bad but it was performing very nicelly .

that is the reason that originally asked for a block diagram or at least afew lines explaining the principal of operation ........ also may be this is good practice for your company so the rest of forum member dont thing that this is a ghost chase thread

[Workhorse]

There are no more than three possibilities here:

A) You use a patented new device in the trench MOSFET class.
B) You are an engineer as much as I am the King of Brunei
C) You are spreading for marketing purpose (next time don't forget to use "ZGNFB enabled" @Bonsai 2008)

Trench MOSFETs in their various incarnations (VMOS, UMOS) are among the worst (read: nonlinear) devices for audio. They were designed exclusively for switching purposes and are currently obsolete, at least those built on silicon.

You ripped him apart Sync