How is the Quad 303 compared to 405-2 ?

[gilwe]

I have a 303 which I originally bought to be used with my NS-10M monitors, but once I tried it in my living room along with my Mission 702, I couldn't take it out

Now I came across a 405-2 and 34 preamp, which I think about getting and using in my living room instead of the 303, using the 303 with the NS10M like I wanted at the first place... But is the 405-2 quite as great sounding as the 303 at all ?... The 303 is just amazing to my ears... So warm, detailed and lush.

Thanks for any advice.

[RogerGustavsson]

I would not use a speaker like the Yamaha NS10-M for evaluating amplifiers or any sound. Just take a look at this:



No bass, a very large peak in the midrange and no driver integration in any direction!


Roger

[gilwe]

It's used as a reference monitor at my studio, where it does its job perfectly

[Patrik Floding]

Originally posted by gilwe
I have a 303 which I originally bought to be used with my NS-10M monitors, but once I tried it in my living room along with my Mission 702, I couldn't take it out

Now I came across a 405-2 and 34 preamp, which I think about getting and using in my living room instead of the 303, using the 303 with the NS10M like I wanted at the first place... But is the 405-2 quite as great sounding as the 303 at all ?... The 303 is just amazing to my ears... So warm, detailed and lush.

Thanks for any advice.

I think it depends on the 405-2 a lot. The state of caps etc. I liked the 405-2, but preferred an unmodded 405-1 (even after recapping the 405-2). However, after further modding of the 405-2 it blows the 405-1 away easily. (And anything else I have heard so far.) Assuming you want transparency, imaging, dynamics and extension in the frequency extremes. I have never heard the 303 though.

Regards

[gilwe]

That's a good point as modding is absolutely no problem. Are you speaking about the Net-Audio mods ? Or can you please refer us to the particular mod you're talking about ?

[RogerGustavsson]

With the NS10-M monitors there will be a risk of making odd sounding recordings. You will not hear the low bass as it is missing. You will probably like to turn down the midrange to make the sound more pleasant. Play that recording on well-balanced equipment and it will sound less good, with pumped up bass and recessed midrange.

I prefer the Keith Snook Quad 405 http://www.dc-daylight.ltd.uk/Valve-...-405-Mods.html . It is a more in-depth modification than Net-Audio and Dada.


Roger

[Patrik Floding]

Originally posted by gilwe
That's a good point as modding is absolutely no problem. Are you speaking about the Net-Audio mods ? Or can you please refer us to the particular mod you're talking about ?

It's a few ones from:

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTri...2/405mods4.txt
http://www.dc-daylight.ltd.uk/Valve-...-405-Mods.html

And a couple of my own mods.

In short:

Total recap of all 'lytics. (And 2x capacity in power supply in my case)
More local power caps.
More local OpA power caps and bypass caps.
More current through OpA regulator zeners. (New zeners and resistors)
Different OpA.
New final dumper transistors.
Re-routing power-ground from PCB.

Also check 405 clone thread.

[Patrik Floding]

Originally posted by RogerGustavsson
With the NS10-M monitors there will be a risk of making odd sounding recordings. You will not hear the low bass as it is missing. You will probably like to turn down the midrange to make the sound more pleasant. Play that recording on well-balanced equipment and it will sound less good, with pumped up bass and recessed midrange.

I prefer the Keith Snook Quad 405 http://www.dc-daylight.ltd.uk/Valve-...-405-Mods.html . It is a more in-depth modification than Net-Audio and Dada.


Roger

That's what the mastering studio is there to fix! In addition to fixing the sound in other ways so it becomes close to unlistenable..

I agree that Keith is a good source, but think B. Ludwig is even better for understanding the mods. And he mentions several more interesting ones.

[gilwe]

Well, I just got back from the guy and had the pair tested (405-2 plus a 34 pre). In short, I found it basically not interesting I'd say... It has its warmth but doesn't remind of my 303 at all. It could have just been the preamp which made it sound like that as well, but I could not test it without the preamp engaged. The more interesting news is that the fellow has a pair of original QUAD ESL-63 speakers in the basement !

He the entire setup was brought by him from London sometime in the 80s. The ESL-63's had a few elements replaced at some point, with original replacement parts of course. The guy says that as far as he recalls, there's is some kind of noise going out from one (or maybe two ?) of them, so probably they need some kind of refurbishment or fixing.
He also has the older elements packed as spare parts (dunno if they work or now).

However, he asks for about 1500$ for the entire set (405-2 + 34 + ESL63 pair + spare elements).

Should I jump over it ?! I had a listen to an old and big sized Altec pair which blew me away... should they sound just as good ?!

http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/M...ey_you/63.html

[tschrama]

I have recently listened to my Quad 306/36/FM4 combo and Quad 303/33/FM3 combo on my ESL57. I prefer the 303 on these.. ..yep I was supprissed too!

The 303s' output is capacitor coupled. Standard I think it is a 2200uF output cap.. this can influence the sound, especially with base-reflex speakers..

The ESL57 however, have a more steady high impedance in the low frequency. This makes the ESL-57 actually a very easy load to drive.. and the 303 output cap might benifit from that.

On the NS10, I wouldn't dare to guess... maybe you could buy another 303, and mod the output caps? that might be a less expensive way to try to improve you setup?

goodluck,
Thijs