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Old 1st October 2008, 02:01 AM   #1
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Default New to bi-amping

I searched, but couldn't find what I needed and am pretty new to crossovers, but could someone point me in the right direction for either a DIY or commercially available 3-way 2nd order (12dB/o) LR analog active crossover? Much appreciated.
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Old 1st October 2008, 02:08 AM   #2
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Elliot Sound Products might have what you want. Here is the main page I leave it to you to explore. He has a lot of articles and other resources for active crossovers.

http://sound.westhost.com/
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Old 1st October 2008, 11:33 AM   #3
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Hi,
bi-amping means passive crossover in the speaker with dual amplifiers, in most regions around the world.
But in the US it seems to be that active speakers and bi-amping are interchangable.
Try changing your search criteria to see if that helps.
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Old 1st October 2008, 12:28 PM   #4
kimbo is offline kimbo  Australia
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Old thread but it may hold some clues for you.....

Which economy active crossover to build?
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Old 1st October 2008, 08:32 PM   #5
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Hmmm, these all look to be 4th order LR filters. Is there some reason that 4th order dominates the market? I have drivers that can handle a 12dB/octave slope.

I am concerned about using the 4th order filters because I understand they reak havoc on square and triangle waves near the crossover region, and I'm trying to build a prototype testing loudspeaker. I was told to stick with something "transient perfect", but I want the coherent phase at the crossover of the LR filter, which puts me back to the 2nd order LR, or am I missing something?
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Old 1st October 2008, 09:41 PM   #6
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There is a lot here:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/filters.htm#2

Seigfried Linkwitz is one of creators of the LR2 filter response. On this page they show a LR2 two-way.

A simple way to get a three-way is to cascade two filters. I am guessing that the best configuration would have the first stage send the high frequency to the tweeter and the low frequency to a second filter. The second filter would separate the mid-range signal (high) from the woofer signal (low).

In the LR2 section he has some concerns about using LR2 versus LR4.
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Old 1st October 2008, 11:29 PM   #7
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http://sound.westhost.com/project81.htm shows how to adapt his 24dB/octave project to 12dB/ocative.
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Old 2nd October 2008, 12:03 AM   #8
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Remember to measure the phase and amplitude response for each driver (placed in its final enclosure) and take it as part of the crossover. This implies that non-ideal non-textbook electrical filters are required in order to get an ideal text-book acoustical response, which is what matters.

LR24 is widely used because it results in a very good compromise between out of band attenuation and the amount of extra group delay added to the acoustical output.

Remember that speakers are bandpass devices with inherent 12dB/oct low-pass and high-pass characteristics, so for example 4th order electrical filters usually result in a 6th order acoustical system, which is again what matters. In other words, the cutoff parameters of each speaker must be considered as an extra filter stage during crossover design (which usually requires some electrical compensation to shift the f3 and the Q to the desired values).

Forget about "transient perfect" and that stuff, it's mostly useless, it's the perfect solution to the wrong problem (usually employed by people that does not even consider driver response for crossover design).

Forget too about using several amplifiers without a custom active crossover, it's pointless, it brings no practical advantages.
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Old 2nd October 2008, 02:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT
Hi,
bi-amping means passive crossover in the speaker with dual amplifiers, in most regions around the world.
But in the US it seems to be that active speakers and bi-amping are interchangable.
Try changing your search criteria to see if that helps.

bi-amping is the use of a passive or active filter before amplification and the use of separate amplifiers for each audio range. the use of powered speakers is a convenient way to do it, but not neccesarily the best way.

tri-amping is the use again of filters before amplification, and the use of separate amplifiers and drivers for low, mid, and high frequencies.

one of the advantages to these methods is that passive crossovers for very high powered systems can get very expensive and trouble prone. capacitors for high powered passive crossovers need to be rated at very high voltages, since at resonance in a series resonant circuit the voltage across a capacitor can exceed ten times the applied voltage from the amplifier....
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Old 2nd October 2008, 02:44 AM   #10
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT
Hi,
bi-amping means passive crossover in the speaker with dual amplifiers, in most regions around the world.
But in the US it seems to be that active speakers and bi-amping are interchangable.
And what terms should this forum use:

- The one we use in Sweden & According to AndrewT in Britain and most regions of the world.
- Or the the US definition.

May I add that most surfers are from US and probably also at this board. This should have some weight, too.
Now if we look at EU, European Union, as one country of united states + Asia as one country, we may be in good balance.

BiAmping in my mouth is always passive filters in speakers.

Speakers that are sold with feature Ready for BiAmping, have 4 terminals, jumpered two and two.
With each x-over separate.
And when you will use BiAmping,
you just remove those 2 jumpers to attach each amplifier to the two pairs of connectors.

Active Sound System, is mainly used for refering to crossover before amplifier, and no x-over in speaker.
But also as a common group name for all these ways together.

As I recall it, Vance Dickason use 'my' definition of BiAmping.
But I may be wrong ... He is from USA, it seems.
He has got a good Chapter of Active systems.
Click the image to open in full size.
It is one Reference Work on Diy Speaker Building.

One advantage here is clear:
By using 'BiAmping' for speakers with X-Overs in box, we can easily refer to this method.
Because using speakers with or without Passive Crossovers in Cabinet Box (after power amplifier) is like night and day.

If www.diyaudio.com members would contribute to this, in my opinion, this is doing the overall audio community a favour.

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