Best 100-W high fidelity audio NPN Transistor ?

[Krokotam_]

I know most of them here are maid by Toshiba, but they really doesn`t sound the way they should
So which one is the best of the best for you ?

[wg_ski]

If a transistor doesn't sound like it should, the problem is probably operator error. Bad designer. *whack!*

Once a transistor of sufficient quality and suitability for the application is chosen, it'a all in the implementation. Any differences in "sound" between a C5200 and a MJL21194, for instance, are going to be very very very minor if you could even hear it at all.

[megajocke]

Layout and grounding scheme seems to be something that is commonly done wrong or just overlooked. Those half wave currents drawn from the PS could cause very bad sound if they induce voltage in the wrong places for example.

[Krokotam_]

Yeah it`s true but most of the h-power transistors are made just to put those db in and lower the quiality, that`s what happend practicly. For an example my marantz PM 440 sounds 10 times better that Technics Su-V90 D - and it`s not more than 60 w/per channel.

Also i think in our time we have too much copies ( originated from China or PRC ) and this is the main problem with this.

Louder mean worse in our case ?

[homemodder]

Different transistors sound very different in a certain design, much more than I would consider minor. You have to keep in mind that there are higher performence ones and run of the mill. One can change the sound of a amp by a change in transistors and even improve the messured performance by changing transistors. Changes in sound could offcourse also be made by changes in the design. If one looks at amps in the market youll see some that by design dont look like much but in fact sound very good as the design benefitted from high performance parts. A change of transitors usually also means slight changes will have to be made to a design, but its not always the case.

In my opinion japanese parts far outperform any european or american made parts especially when it comes to BJTs. For outputs look at tranies from Sanken or Toshiba and for small and medium signal Sanyo parts. Theres is also harder to get Hitachi/renesance or NEC parts avaialable that are extremely good. Sorry guys I feel parts from onsemi, motorola ect are run of the mill espesially for audio use. Onsemi make copies of japanese trannies to improve their range, look at all the variations that they make of a old toshiba part, the trusty and good 2sa1302 and complement. The performance gap is even bigger when it comes to medium and small signal devices.

[janneman]

This is only true if the amp was designed by a spectacularly incompetent designer.

Jan Didden

[AKSA]

I agree categorically with Homemodder. It is obvious he has built and listened to many different designs and component mixes. Topology is the sexy issue, with contests drawn up daily in this forum to see who can produce the most incomprehensible schematic. But in truth, the standard Lin/Bailey/Self designs, with proper, fastidious parts selection and very careful selection of operating points will give absolutely outstanding results.

This is precisely what manufacturers do to produce a better amplifier. And the influence of current limiters to 'protect' the transistors has profound sonic impact, too. Better to select output devices with very high Vceo and superior SOARs, and then use simple means, such as fuses, to protect the speaker. It's not quite as effective as current limiting, but it sounds markedly better.

Furthermore, the issue of compensation (and phase lead) is another can of worms, seldom properly done. This is dependent upon layout, too, so PSpice is of limited use here. Time spent empirically figuring out the compensation is richly rewarded in good sonics.

Finally, too much speed/slew rate is bad, as we none of us have the ears of bats. LP filters should be placed on all amps beyond a certain speed to prevent intermodulation with local radio, TV and cellphone signals. This is very important, something I learned in practice and from PMA.

Japanese transistors are the best in my view too. And they can be had at low cost if you buy in SE Asia, particularly HK and Singapore.

I should add, whimsically, that I am not an engineer, and thus qualify as spectacularly incompetent. Pity really, my life has been wasted.....

Cheers,

Hugh

[homemodder]

Janneman, sorry I dont truely understand your point.
You are an experienced designer and maybe do audio design for a living, dont you experiment with different trannies in a design to find the best possible sounding and mesureing part available??. Do you find that a bc, bd or 2n part sounds the same as a 2sa/2sc part or even measures the the same in a particular position of the design.
I find major differences. Building a simple diamond buffer with the same passive components as an example with bc or 2n is definetly not the same as building it with japanese trannies. Try it, not only do I find The japanese trannies version sounds better but it measures consideribly better too. Its not voodoo, looking at datasheets of the trannies tells most of the story, lower noise, better linearity, higher early voltage, lower capacitances etc.
I came from a country where it was eisier to get japanese components than eu/american parts and when I first came to this forum I saw some very good designs and my first thoughts were what it would sound like with decent japanese devices.
Imagine building a Porche by German design with african parts............ Do you think it would be the same as building it with german parts????

I find that most spectacular competent designers know this, and when I look at their designs I almost always find they using the best possible devices for a certain purpose and its always japanese in the case of BJTs, offcourse sometimes they have to make compromises because of price or availability. Ive given some tips to some here on component selection, mainly BJTs and all that have bothered to say thank you have written back to report excellent results, some are very competent designers from what i can tell from their designs and I suppose the problem was information and availabilty of these components. Some of these japanese devices I use are nearly 30 years old but still in production and vastly superior to anything western, and I still see bc547, bd140, 2n5401 being used, you gotta be kidding, well I suppose its a price or availabilty thing. I dont have enough experience with eu/american FETs so Ill wont speculate.

[Krokotam_]

Totaly agreed with you homemodder . Looking all the years at japanise amps and chineese - is like looking at well designed building , where you can do everything and it`s easy to be done - and - a village cotage with one door and no windows

Most of the amps i have are at least 30 years old - and they sound like new ones ! even better

[jacco vermeulen]

Originally posted by homemodder
Theres is also harder to get NEC parts

Look for the Jensen power amp paper.