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Old 29th August 2008, 11:58 AM   #1
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
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Default New amp sounds too controlled ... what to fix

Just bought a new AV amp from Yamaha but the sound is too controlled, its killing the expressive musical quality of the music.
Now i got it for the surround channels and figured i will just use my own amps for the fronts if the sound is not what i expected.
But the other channels should be expressive as well.

Now for the price i got it i dont really want to send it back and get something else. I'm hoping i can revive some of its qualities by reducing the feedback on the outputs. This is how it sounds to me. I have experiance buiding a few gainclones and willing to dive into the interior of my NEW amp but i'm hoping i can get some pointers here as what could be the cause of the too clean sound. Its has plenty of detail but lacks the free flowing quality i much seek.

Now please be gentle as this is just a hobby for me..
If i decrease the feedback then i will have more gain and this will need to be compensated by lowering the incomming signal right?
First i'll need to find out what exactly is powering the amp

the specs say the amp has a damping factor of 120. Its also still breaking in but i doubt very much it will improve to the point i want.

I will post pictures later today.

Thanks, Collin
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Old 29th August 2008, 12:10 PM   #2
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Put a resistor in series with speaker cable.
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Old 29th August 2008, 12:17 PM   #3
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
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Theres already quite alot of R in the X-over coils and its not enough...


Oh and i also lost some low end going to Yamaha compared to an old cheap sony amp.
Unfortunately my chipamp is stored at the moment as I am moving soon.
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Old 29th August 2008, 12:35 PM   #4
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If you have just bought it, let it run in for a week or two, the sound changes and maybe youll like it.
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Old 29th August 2008, 12:39 PM   #5
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
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Yes i will but i dont think thats enough..
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Old 29th August 2008, 12:53 PM   #6
h_a is offline h_a  Europe
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Quote:
Put a resistor in series with speaker cable.
May I ask why reducing the damping factor could help?

Don't forget to use a high-power resistor.

Have fun, Hannes

EDIT: @original topic: I don't think reducing negative feedback is a good idea. First, it increases gain, so the usable way of your volume control is reduced. 2nd distortion will go up and you don't know by how much. If you go too far with this, it might become a distortion generator.
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Old 29th August 2008, 01:17 PM   #7
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
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Reducing the damping factor will diminish the control of the amp on the woofer thus letting it move more in its own will (driver / box / environment interactions)

I Have used a very high gain on my chip-amp and it sounded much better than low gain. Yes the volume becomes an issue thatís why you need to reduce the incoming signal. Not sure about the best way to do this though Ö Thatís one of my questions.



Quote:
Originally posted by h_a


May I ask why reducing the damping factor could help?

Don't forget to use a high-power resistor.

Have fun, Hannes

EDIT: @original topic: I don't think reducing negative feedback is a good idea. First, it increases gain, so the usable way of your volume control is reduced. 2nd distortion will go up and you don't know by how much. If you go too far with this, it might become a distortion generator.
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Old 29th August 2008, 02:51 PM   #8
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Use one Tube Power amplifier, instead.
You will soon run out of control plenty enough & get those sounds.

My reasoning is
that you can sell your Natural Sound Yamaha on eBay,
in ORIGINAL Un-destroyed status.
And get one amplifier that suits your 'Sounds' better.

Tube amplifierd are know to often have very low damping factors.
Problem might be that there are more advanced modern valve power amps,
that may even have better damp factors
So look for very old tubes amplifiers, please.
Before year of 1950 is a good bet
So called Vintage -- they do not always come very cheap, man.

Also a few of Nelson Pass' amplifiers are known to very well out of control.

For example F1, F2, F3, F4, F5 line should not have too high damping factor level.
They ar built for to adjust themselves to the speaker impedance
www.firstwatt.com


Lineup
Lineup Audio Lab - where we take pride in making power amps
with damp factor close to 0.1 ... or lower!!!!
__________________
lineup
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Old 29th August 2008, 02:59 PM   #9
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
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Yes, tube amps, I know, lots of $, F1,F2 amps not an option.

thanks for your views but Iím not getting much advice in the direction Iím asking forÖ.

HOW to change the sound on this model to suit my tastes. I know it can be done as I have done something similar before but not on a brand new who know how it looks like on the inside AV amp..

When the pictures are posted I hope I get some helpful answers.
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Old 29th August 2008, 03:19 PM   #10
wg_ski is offline wg_ski  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coolin

Oh and i also lost some low end going to Yamaha compared to an old cheap sony amp.
Unfortunately my chipamp is stored at the moment as I am moving soon.
The Sony amp may not have been flat to begin with. Was the loudness function on? The cheap amp may have also had some other built-in bass boost to help compenate little bitty speakers. When it's gone you will miss it.

If the new amp has pre-out/main-in, get a parametric equalizer. Then you can adjust it the way you like it. You're only going to be able to change the response near resonance, and somewhat at the crossover frequency, by adding series R with the speaker. An EQ can do more.
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