New amp sounds too controlled ... what to fix - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th August 2008, 03:39 PM   #11
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
diyAudio Member
 
Bonsai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
quote
"Just bought a new AV amp from Yamaha but the sound is too controlled, its killing the expressive musical quality of the music."
unquote

Try a glass of Aussie red about 20 minutes before your listening session.

Works wonders mate.
__________________
bonsai
Amplifier Design and Construction for MUSIC! http://hifisonix.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2008, 03:54 PM   #12
h_a is offline h_a  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
h_a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Graz, Austria
Quote:
Reducing the damping factor will diminish the control of the amp on the woofer thus letting it move more in its own will
Not exactly like that, I refer to D. Self. The passive crossover really cooks damping factor down. As does the usual Zobel.

Quote:
Try a glass of Aussie red about 20 minutes before your listening session.
Now that's some real advice.

A lot of amp shortcomings can be fixed that way. Unfortunately it's not permanent.

Have fun, Hannes
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2008, 07:19 PM   #13
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Coolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Holland
Thumbs up PROBLEM SOLVED !! Back EMF

Hey guys it actually IS the damping factor.

Now I've got very lightweight cones so this could be the reason its so audible but using the resistor really works !
But dont use it in series ! It improved the low end but not much more than that. Use it Parallel. My reasoning is it gives the back emf (motion from the cone without applied signal) from the drivers a chance damp in the resistor as the amps resistance is too high to be of any good.

Now while it is a good solution sound wise i still dont like it..

What can be done to the amp itself to lessen the damping factor??
There are indeed ams with adjustable damping factors, that would be nice but not practical for this amp..

Picture of the output stage coming next . Looks pretty standard to me but i know very little

Can someone point me to information ?

Thanks, Collin
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2008, 07:23 PM   #14
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
Design engineer, consultant
diyAudio Member
 
PMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
The best solution is another amplifier, or ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2008, 07:30 PM   #15
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
a damping factor of 120 sounds quite normal.
What impedance is that into?
How does it vary with frequency?

Adding half an ohm in series with the speaker cable will reduce the damping factor to lower than just about any SS amp on the market.
But it will also alter the Q of the speaker and may sound a bit boomy after adding the resistor.

Have you read the ESP site yet?
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2008, 07:33 PM   #16
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Coolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Holland
Question output stage

The sound is now close to the sony amp. Still a little more compressed though
Attached Images
File Type: jpg output stage yamaha.jpg (81.7 KB, 381 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2008, 07:40 PM   #17
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Coolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Holland
Originally posted by AndrewT
a damping factor of 120 sounds quite normal.
What impedance is that into?
How does it vary with frequency?

I saw a curve for a different model Yamaha someone measured and it was lower in the bass area but still somewhere around 50 or so.
///////////////////////////////////////


Adding half an ohm in series with the speaker cable will reduce the damping factor to lower than just about any SS amp on the market.
But it will also alter the Q of the speaker and may sound a bit boomy after adding the resistor.

It was actually 6,8 Ohm ! in series. Ive gor 15 ohm in Parralel now.
////////////////////////////////////////

Have you read the ESP site yet?

A long time ago, going to check it again...
///////////////////////////////////////
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th August 2008, 08:35 PM   #18
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Coolin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Holland
Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewT

Adding half an ohm in series with the speaker cable will reduce the damping factor to lower than just about any SS amp on the market.
But it will also alter the Q of the speaker and may sound a bit boomy after adding the resistor.

[/B]
Yes the sony amp sounded boomy with a different bass driver..

This experience i speak of are with pro drivers, light weight and heavy motors, low Qes.
I guess every extra Hz you can get out a driver with a high Fs has a big impact. Still, it worked for the midrange driver as well, also very light cone.

!!!!! So could this be the heavenly match between tube amps and high eff. drivers !!!!!

Gr, Collin
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2008, 01:10 AM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Canandaigua, NY USA
Coolin, you said it improved when you put 15 ohms in parallel. That actually increases the damping seen by the speakers, though not by much. My guess is the amp is now supplying more current (you have to drive both the resistor and the speakers) and maybe the amp isn't very good at low power levels- it just likes working a bit harder, or it doesn't like the cables, the speakers or something. As long as the combined value isn't too low, I'd just leave the resistor in parallel.
__________________
I may be barking up the wrong tree, but at least I'm barking!
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th August 2008, 01:48 AM   #20
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stockholm
Hi,
I strongly suspect the notorious Japanese commercial amplifier philosophy of huge open-loop gain an GNF resulting in an extremely clean, lifeless sound without any kind of warmth, spirit and dimension. The musical qualities can thereby be rated as negligible.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Remote Controlled CD-Rom Controller john65b Swap Meet 5 31st May 2009 05:03 AM
MCU controlled DC Protect for SKA gbyleveldt Solid State 3 12th October 2006 07:55 PM
DC Controlled AC Dimmer? imix500 Parts 6 9th January 2006 12:54 PM
Remote Controlled Tube Amp SHiFTY Tubes / Valves 4 16th February 2003 11:58 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:47 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2