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Old 21st March 2003, 10:23 PM   #1
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Default Amps for best synergy for PHL Manger / Raven

Recommendations for amps to best drive these 3 driver types please

10 years ago I owned hybrid ribbon Apogees, sold due to lack of dynamics.
Tried a number of amps, and for moderate $ found only Musical Fidelity allowed the ribbons to sing smoothly, showing off their virtues.

Now designing an active system with PHL mids and Ravens.
To best drive the Ravens, showing off their virtues, considering a tube push pull 2ª3 or 300 B amps.
Are gainclones good enough


The 10 inch PHL mids drop down to less than 6 ohms.
Tube amps of moderate $ might not handle down the low mids well.
Could Zobel them. Has anyone done this to a PHL.

Could use Gainclones, or better bridged gainclones,
2nd hand home theater power amp eg Marantz, an Aleph 2 or Aksa.
Opinions or recommendations please.

For the center speaker in this dual purpose system, things get even more interesting.
Was considering the traditional, of match the L and Right.

But for ultimate clarity of dialog, rather than seamlessness, although the Manger wont do the very bottom ranges of male voices,
my research suggests that the Manger is *the worlds *best* driver for voice.
Its not cheap, but you only need one, and subs aside, the center mid is the most important driver in a HT setup.
Andre what power amp to drive a Manger, for best clarity.
Manger stated criteria are very high bandwidth and super fast.
But what specific amps do this. Up to $500.

Would an Aleph or Aksa be good enough for a Manger_
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Old 21st March 2003, 10:29 PM   #2
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Since I have some experience with PHL and Ravens, I can tell you that you will be dealing with something a little higher than 2 ohms on the tweeter, and you will want to consider that.

Also, there is no way that a 10 inch PHL is going to reach up to a Raven. The 10 inch is good to maybe 1K, and I personally would not try to use a Raven below about 5.

Having said that, both products are superb within their ranges; you simply have to consider a midrange driver between them.
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Old 21st March 2003, 10:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nelson Pass
I personally would not try to use a Raven below about 5.

What if he uses Raven 2 or 3 ?

Sounds like you refer to Raven1 ?



P.S. What is this rumor, that Nelson Pass will
add to passdiy a 2kw per channel class ab monster
amp... to beat the aussie amp 1kw....

Monster amp = drag racing
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Old 21st March 2003, 10:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by thylantyr



What if he uses Raven 2 or 3 ?

Sounds like you refer to Raven1 ?


The ribbon in Raven 1 and 2 is the same, the only difference is the lentgth. So it melts the same way. It happened to me on few occasions, but probably because I'm listening to industrial music. The good thing is that it can be easily replaced, so, unlike other tweeters, Raven is practically undestructable.
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Old 21st March 2003, 11:41 PM   #5
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I'm fond of the SA8535 planar tweeter from stage accompany,
the cost is high but it has amazing sonics. I've punished this
tweeter to the point where the diaphram buckles on intense
musical passages being driven by 200w rms amp. The
tweeter has not failed me yet. SA uses this driver in
prosound too... pretty slick tweeter. 13 ohm, 103db sensitivity,
mates extremely well with high sensitivity PHL midranges.
SA told me they run the crossover 1200hz , 12db slope
passive crossover. But I run mine around 2khz - 2.5khz,
18db slope... sonice tastes vary.

... fun stuff ...
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Old 22nd March 2003, 09:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by thylantyr Monster amp = drag racing
That's what it is. Think Tommy Ivo.
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Old 23rd March 2003, 04:53 AM   #7
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Default LIVE ON THE RIBBON...

Hi,

Quote:
I'm fond of the SA8535 planar tweeter from stage accompany,
Oh, yes....probably the best ribbons around...if you can afforfd them.
They somehow remind me of the ESS AMT but better dispersion.

Marvelous stuff...

Ciao,
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Old 23rd March 2003, 08:35 AM   #8
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Cool the original questions

The 10 inch PHL being considered, the 3420, 3430 and possibly the 3820, are all rated in their specs to between 2.5 and 3 kHz. BTW they are only to be mids, the bass will probably be Peerless.

The new Esg1 is more likely than a Raven. It is equivalent to the Raven 3.1. Esg1 specs claim Impedance 8 ohm linear. While both the Raven 3.1 and Esg1 claim response to less than 1 kHz, I was intending to cross to the PHL at between 1.5 and 2 kHz. I would have thought that there should be no problem running any 10 inch PHL to 1.5 kHz.

So to return to the original questions, does anyone have suggestions for best driving these superb drivers.
Tube amps, Gainclones, an Aleph 2 or Aksa, or otherwise.

And also, a power amp to drive a Manger, for best clarity.

Manger stated criteria are very high bandwidth and super fast.
But what specific amps do this. Up to maximum $500 for one channel.

Would an Aleph or Aksa be good enough for a Manger_
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Old 23rd March 2003, 02:07 PM   #9
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Hi Rick,

The Pass Labs crew is using the PHL 10” drive in the Rushmore. I don’t know which model or what specific modifications might have been provided by PHL on the Rushmore model. Being a powered speaker, the Rushmore has a 20W Aleph powering each of its drivers individually except for the woofer (15” PHL), which is powered by a 40W AlephX. Find more info here:
http://www.passlabs.com/prodlit/rushmore.htm

I had the pleasure of hearing these speakers at the CES and they are very dynamic without sounding the least bit strained, and musical yet detailed at the same time. There were a few shortcomings in the frequency response that I understand have been sorted out. I would love to hear them again.

Rodd Yamashita
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rushmore-drv.jpg (14.9 KB, 591 views)
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Old 23rd March 2003, 02:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: the original questions

Quote:
Originally posted by rick57


The new Esg1 is more likely than a Raven. It is equivalent to the Raven 3.1. Esg1 specs claim Impedance 8 ohm linear. While both the Raven 3.1 and Esg1 claim response to less than 1 kHz, I was intending to cross to the PHL at between 1.5 and 2 kHz. I would have thought that there should be no problem running any 10 inch PHL to 1.5 kHz.

R3 sells for $1650. Are you taking about that kind of drivers?
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