Amps for best synergy for PHL Manger / Raven

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Recommendations for amps to best drive these 3 driver types please

10 years ago I owned hybrid ribbon Apogees, sold due to lack of dynamics.
Tried a number of amps, and for moderate $ found only Musical Fidelity allowed the ribbons to sing smoothly, showing off their virtues.

Now designing an active system with PHL mids and Ravens.
To best drive the Ravens, showing off their virtues, considering a tube push pull 2ª3 or 300 B amps.
Are gainclones good enough


The 10 inch PHL mids drop down to less than 6 ohms.
Tube amps of moderate $ might not handle down the low mids well.
Could Zobel them. Has anyone done this to a PHL.

Could use Gainclones, or better bridged gainclones,
2nd hand home theater power amp eg Marantz, an Aleph 2 or Aksa.
Opinions or recommendations please.

For the center speaker in this dual purpose system, things get even more interesting.
Was considering the traditional, of match the L and Right.

But for ultimate clarity of dialog, rather than seamlessness, although the Manger wont do the very bottom ranges of male voices,
my research suggests that the Manger is *the worlds *best* driver for voice.
Its not cheap, but you only need one, and subs aside, the center mid is the most important driver in a HT setup.
Andre what power amp to drive a Manger, for best clarity.
Manger stated criteria are very high bandwidth and super fast.
But what specific amps do this. Up to $500.

Would an Aleph or Aksa be good enough for a Manger_
 
The one and only
Joined 2001
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Since I have some experience with PHL and Ravens, I can tell you that you will be dealing with something a little higher than 2 ohms on the tweeter, and you will want to consider that.

Also, there is no way that a 10 inch PHL is going to reach up to a Raven. The 10 inch is good to maybe 1K, and I personally would not try to use a Raven below about 5.

Having said that, both products are superb within their ranges; you simply have to consider a midrange driver between them.
 
thylantyr said:



What if he uses Raven 2 or 3 ? :)

Sounds like you refer to Raven1 ?:nod: :scratch:



The ribbon in Raven 1 and 2 is the same, the only difference is the lentgth. So it melts the same way. It happened to me on few occasions, but probably because I'm listening to industrial music.;) The good thing is that it can be easily replaced, so, unlike other tweeters, Raven is practically undestructable.
 
I'm fond of the SA8535 planar tweeter from stage accompany,
the cost is high but it has amazing sonics. I've punished this
tweeter to the point where the diaphram buckles on intense
musical passages being driven by 200w rms amp. The
tweeter has not failed me yet. SA uses this driver in
prosound too... pretty slick tweeter. 13 ohm, 103db sensitivity,
mates extremely well with high sensitivity PHL midranges.
SA told me they run the crossover 1200hz , 12db slope
passive crossover. But I run mine around 2khz - 2.5khz,
18db slope... sonice tastes vary.

... fun stuff ...
 
the original questions

The 10 inch PHL being considered, the 3420, 3430 and possibly the 3820, are all rated in their specs to between 2.5 and 3 kHz. BTW they are only to be mids, the bass will probably be Peerless.

The new Esg1 is more likely than a Raven. It is equivalent to the Raven 3.1. Esg1 specs claim Impedance 8 ohm linear. While both the Raven 3.1 and Esg1 claim response to less than 1 kHz, I was intending to cross to the PHL at between 1.5 and 2 kHz. I would have thought that there should be no problem running any 10 inch PHL to 1.5 kHz.:cool:

So to return to the original questions, does anyone have suggestions for best driving these superb drivers.
Tube amps, Gainclones, an Aleph 2 or Aksa, or otherwise.

And also, a power amp to drive a Manger, for best clarity.
:confused:
Manger stated criteria are very high bandwidth and super fast.
But what specific amps do this. Up to maximum $500 for one channel.

Would an Aleph or Aksa be good enough for a Manger_
 
Ex-Moderator
Joined 2002
Hi Rick,

The Pass Labs crew is using the PHL 10” drive in the Rushmore. I don’t know which model or what specific modifications might have been provided by PHL on the Rushmore model. Being a powered speaker, the Rushmore has a 20W Aleph powering each of its drivers individually except for the woofer (15” PHL), which is powered by a 40W AlephX. Find more info here:
http://www.passlabs.com/prodlit/rushmore.htm

I had the pleasure of hearing these speakers at the CES and they are very dynamic without sounding the least bit strained, and musical yet detailed at the same time. There were a few shortcomings in the frequency response that I understand have been sorted out. I would love to hear them again.

Rodd Yamashita
 

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Re: the original questions

rick57 said:


The new Esg1 is more likely than a Raven. It is equivalent to the Raven 3.1. Esg1 specs claim Impedance 8 ohm linear. While both the Raven 3.1 and Esg1 claim response to less than 1 kHz, I was intending to cross to the PHL at between 1.5 and 2 kHz. I would have thought that there should be no problem running any 10 inch PHL to 1.5 kHz.:cool:


R3 sells for $1650. Are you taking about that kind of drivers?
 
Retired diyAudio Moderator
Joined 2002
Nelson Pass said:
Since I have some experience with PHL and Ravens, I can tell you that you will be dealing with something a little higher than 2 ohms on the tweeter, and you will want to consider that.

Also, there is no way that a 10 inch PHL is going to reach up to a Raven. The 10 inch is good to maybe 1K, and I personally would not try to use a Raven below about 5.

Having said that, both products are superb within their ranges; you simply have to consider a midrange driver between them.

I am looking to make a 3way with the Raven R2. Given a Raven R2 crossing over at 5k, do you have any suggestions to fill the midrange gap? I was thinking about the PHL 6.5" 1120 mid:
http://www.e-speakers.com/PDF's/1120.pdf
I am also looking for a woofer that goes lower then the PHL 10" drivers, as they seem lacking.

--
Brian
 
So to return to the original questions, does anyone have suggestions for best driving these superb drivers.
Tube amps, Gainclones, an Aleph 2 or Aksa, or otherwise.


Using high sensitivity drivers tend
to reveal noisy amplifiers, so my
first criteria on pre-amp/amplifier
selection is to find a low noise
solution ...


.... whichever brands you like,
is what works best .... :devilr:
 
questions were about *amps*

Peter I was considering the Esg1, which is $499. Still very expensive, but I love the sound of ribbons, and what else can handle 1.8 kHz up as well (except perhaps the Seas Millennium, which is nowhere near as sensitive). That's a rhetorical question.

I've decided to go ribbon PHL for the left and right. So thanks all for the concern about my driver matching and cost, but the questions asked were all about *amps* to best drive speaker types, especially the more critical ribbons and Mangers.

I think an Aleph would be great for PHL (or a lot of other brands), and probably for ribbons too - correct me if anyone has found better - or cheaper.

So any *gainclone ribbon* users out there?
and any *Manger users*??


TIA
 
Gainclone for PHL, Aleph 2 for Manger?

> Aleph 2 would be too much but you could use Aleph 3.

You're right, Aleph 2 would be overkill for a tri-amp with speakers this sensitivity.
If I were to go Aleph, I believe that 30 is better than 3, if a design is around (I think so).

> Gainclone is fine as well and it all depends how much money and work you want to invest into that.

My 'emerging hunch' is that that a well executed Gainclone for mids and treble, is at least 80% of the quality for (subject to components chosen) maybe a third the cost.

IIRC, some people 6-12 months ago were intending to use Mangers. Perhaps they never did.

For the Manger, probably should build an Aleph, and compare to the Gainclone. (It'll take a while).
The Aksa - the only one of these I've heard - IMHO is great for mids and bass, but has some harshness c. 3 kHz.
As the Manger (93 dB) is lower sensitivity than the PHL (98 dB), the Aleph 2 would be better here.

Any comments?

TIA
 
Peter I was considering the Esg1, which is $499. Still very expensive, but I love the sound of ribbons, and

what else

can handle 1.8 kHz up as well


This one..... hehehe

The company operates this tweeter
down to 1.2khz. $600 ea.

I have five, need three more for
my mini line source project.

http://www.stageaccompany.com/cdload.html

Esg1 is more mechanical user friendly
than SA tweeter. I have to get
some machined enclosures for my
SA's so it's easy to mount, provides
magnetic shielding, and looks

... perty.... :clown:

more cost.

Sounds like a fun project, Esg1 + PHL,
plus Lambda TD15 <---- awesome
 
--and any *Manger users*??

Since Andre from E-speakers.com
sells them, did you ask him
for comments ?

I don't remember which thread
I read this, but I read somewhere
that someone said Mangers are
not very loud, prehaps max spl is
between 100 - 110 db. I don't
know how this would mate with
the other drivers which can output
alot more ?????

I guess this is a function of
"volume knob",........ hehe
 
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