Amps for best synergy for PHL Manger / Raven - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th March 2003, 01:50 AM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Mars
[b]You're right, Aleph 2 would be overkill for a tri-amp with speakers this sensitivity. [/b[

You can never have enough power

I've tested my SA ribbon with
a mono 600w Adcom, also
I drove my PHL 2520 with
600w, the sonic impact is
extraordinary.

It comes down to listening
habits..... hehe
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 02:27 AM   #22
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: dry ol Melbourne Australia
Default Manger

> Andre from E-speakers sells Manger, did you ask him?
Yes, just an hour ago, wanted to see if any users had first. Hopefully will hear soon.

> Mangers are not very loud, prehaps max spl is 100 - 110 dB
Yes, 110 dB I believe. Probably enough for movies.
I think "THX reference level is 95 dB, and it's "only" the centre.
Definitely not the speakers for you, thylantyr.

For those who don't know Manger, some 'testimonial' snippets on Manger "ready mades" are here:
http://www.manger-msw.com/en/test/index.html
all using different variations on the base driver

a complete review in "TNT":
http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/manger109_e.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 03:57 AM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
Greetings,

1. The raven's have a low inpedance of 2.5ohm so most tube amps, especially the lower output triode type, cannot drive them properly. Best amp for the Raven's are small class A SS amps a la Pass labs. 10 to 20w is more than enough.

2. 6ohm is not a problem for most tube amp and the PHL's usally do great with tube amps of all topology. A Zobel will only equalize the impedance across the bandwidth of the driver, it will not raise it above it's minimum value. The only way to do that would be to add a series resistor but it is not recommended.

3. Older (and newer of course) McIntosh really sound great. The Pass Aleph is absolutley gorgeous on a Raven.

4. A driver does not know it is reproducing dialogue or a cello. It is a misconception to say you can "enhance" the intelligibility of a center channel. It's an old practice that has no more use these days. Any good driver with low distortion, and the flattest possible response will do best. That said, it is true that the Manger does pretty much everything extremely well, and so do a few nice conventional midranges. Again, a clean and transparent amp will do well. To answer your question directly, the Aleph will do fine but you need a fair amount of power reserve, 200w is a good start. Old McIntosh also sound extremely good on the Manger. You simply don't want to use a screetchy amp (like older transistor amps) on the Manger, it will shave the beard off your face...

5. True, the center channel is the most important in a HT setup with the sub being the least. Ultimately, the LCR channels should be identical along with the surround channels.

Hope this helps, and I would like to stress the fact that the best way to reproduce anything is fidelity. What goes in goes out the same way with added gain. I sometimes cannot believe how much the best reviewed systems deviate from neutrality and still get top ratings. If sound was like picture, these megabucks system would be thrown out the window. Red is red, green is green and blue is blue. If it's not then it's wrong. Not seductive, engaging or any other jargon the reviwers invented to hide the faults to keep the advertising cash flow running...

Andre

PS: I know there is much more than flat response to consider when making a great system but it should be the main target and the tools to do that are, phase coherence and clean impulse response and smooth off axis response.
__________________
Andre Perreault
E-Speakers.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 07:35 AM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: dry ol Melbourne Australia
Question Manger v PHL

Andre

IIRC the Esg1 specs claim linear 8 ohms.
If correct?
this is a lot easier to drive than the Raven equivalent @ 2.5 ohms min . .

*Totally* different technology and HT matching rules aside,

how well do you think the Manger (in a box) handles voice (180 Hz - 1.5 kHz) compared to the PHL 3430 (in a dipole)??
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 08:03 AM   #25
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Germany
I have a pair of Mangers, but I only listened to them briefly half way through the process of finishing the enclosures.

While having an internally fast amp, i.e. one with a unity gain bandwitdth of several 10 MHz and a flat open loop gain throughout the audio band, is probably a good idea, I don't agree with Daniela Manger about the input filter. If your source is CD, lots of digital and analog filtering is done above 21 kHz. Having a 150 kHz-filter on the input of the amp won't hurt the signal but will help to keep EMI out.

Note that each of the two MSW voice coils has 16 Ohms. I had been pondering driving each from a separate amp. This would probably allow me to use superfast output transistors that have a current rating of only about 1 A.

Regards,

Eric
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 08:57 AM   #26
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
While I listen through MSWs as well - and I really appreciate their sound - I am a little sceptical about such a mixed setup.

IMO a HT setup should be as homogenuous as possible. I.e. center main and rear speakers should have the same sonic footprint. That means they should at least use the same midranges and tweeters. It would be even better if they have the same LF - cutoff and -principle.

Regards

Charles

There is no reason (besides cost) not to use an all-MSW HT setup:
http://www.klangwerk.ch/php/lautspre...e.php?01030201
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 04:00 PM   #27
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles, California
To be frank, dipole for home theater (or music) is not my cup of tea. While it is an interesting concept, I don't like the extra diffuse path it creates. Focus is more important to me and closer to the source. If you ever worked in a studio and mixed albums or Films, listening to your work on a dipole system is quite a shock (unpleasant shock...) mainly because of the multi-path and extra ambiance dipole creates. If you don't know the source, it is very seductive I suppose.

Now PHL vs Manger? Tough question, having no crossover point and a point source characteristic certainly gives the Manger an edge but if power output is a factor, a PHL/ESg1 combination, when properly designed, will give you more headroom and maximum output. It's more money as well...

Simplicity usually wins though and the Manger is in my opinion, the easiest route to truly high end performance.

Andre
__________________
Andre Perreault
E-Speakers.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 09:08 PM   #28
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: dry ol Melbourne Australia
Default open baffles not go? Manger rules?

Thanks again Andre.


Yes dipole is unusual for home theater.
My system is to be primarily music, but doubling for HT.

But was a little surprised by your views on dipoles.

I thought you personally had a dipole system with the 3430 in open baffles, for music. A 2nd system? What do you use for bass xo/ extension?

on the Manger an edge but if power output is a factor, a PHL/ESg1 combination, when properly designed,
will give you more headroom and maximum output. It's more money as well...

> the Manger is in my opinion, the easiest route to truly high end performance.
Interesting comments

Regards

Richard
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th March 2003, 09:59 PM   #29
rljones is offline rljones  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: california
rick57,

I recently built a speaker, looking at much the same drivers that you have checked out. What I came up with is a two way Jordan 92S + ESg2. On the thread below is how I implemented it, including crossover (later in the post), measurements, some nonsense digressions, and finally some photos of the finished speaker:

Jordan 92S TL + ESg2 ribbon

BTW, Andre was very helpful.

As for an amplifier, I would suggest for a class B-A/B style, the AKSA. Talk with Hugh; he's helpful too.

Regards, Robert
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2003, 12:46 AM   #30
Docster is offline Docster  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Melbourne
you should seriously consider AKSA. Check out the forum on this site. The 55W version can be depowered for tweeter only use in an active system. Others have built 25w/55w/100w per channel for a set up like you propose.

There are lots of reviews. I'm really happy with mine .



Owen
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DIY Synergy horn ideas nl Multi-Way 8 3rd September 2009 03:42 AM
Big sale thread: PHL, Raven, Amps, In-wall/ceiling speakers, Amps, VideoRequest mbcouple Swap Meet 2 27th October 2008 10:27 PM
Aussie Amplifiers NX150 Synergy!!! The Saint Vendor's Bazaar 14 13th May 2007 08:58 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:13 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2