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Old 8th April 2003, 05:21 PM   #771
jcarr is offline jcarr  United States
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Jan:

>One thing that has always bothered me is that everyone always reports an improvement from break-in.<

Based on how I do listening tests, which is with multiple units that may or may not be identical inside, are visually identical and sealed, I would say "not necessarily". I find that sometimes burn-in results in no perceivable differences before and after, sometimes there are sonic differences that are not perceived as improvements, and sometimes the perceived results are worse after burn-in.

Listener's perceptions can also change over time, despite there being no significant changes to the device(s) under test. For example, I have tried some things that I thought were promising at first listen, but subsequently rejected. When I listen, I tend to focus on how the music is expressed rather than on individual sounds, and it may take me some time to build up an assessment of the balance of merits and demerits.

The above reflects my personal findings and perceptions. YMMV.

regards, jonathan carr
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Old 8th April 2003, 05:32 PM   #772
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It is also my experience that sometimes it seems that a unit sounded better in the begining than after burning in.
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Old 8th April 2003, 07:04 PM   #773
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Default pan...

this should help your learning process

http://www.dself.demon.co.uk/subjectv.htm
 
Old 8th April 2003, 08:07 PM   #774
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Default Re: pan...

Quote:
Originally posted by mikek
this should help your learning process

http://www.dself.demon.co.uk/subjectv.htm
Since Pan is a big fan of the differences in cables, he may also want to read this:

http://www.verber.com/mark/cables.html

It's written by an audio designer (John Dunlavy) who confesses that he'd love to design cables that genuinely sounded better in blind tests, but it doesn't seem to be possible. He goes on to talk about a carefully controlled blind test where GoldenEars were brought in to evaluate speaker cables. As expected they heard "big differences" between them but they never told them they were listening to 12 gauge zip cord in all cases! They thought the biggest, sexiest looking cable sounded best. They never told them for fear "they would become an enemy for life" if they knew the truth!

This is just like the Candid Camera episode where wine tasters were asked to evaluate 4 glasses of wine, each sitting in front of a different bottle, and everyone tasted big differences between them. Then they revealed all four were poured from the same bottle. Pan: You are vastly understimating the psychology behind non-blind listening.

The above link is referenced in this excellent article that talks more about blind testing along with several other references regarding cable myths:

http://www.svconline.com/magazineart...221&mode=print
 
Old 8th April 2003, 08:17 PM   #775
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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Default Re: pan...

Quote:
Originally posted by mikek
this should help your learning process

http://www.dself.demon.co.uk/subjectv.htm
I do not understand what you mean.
What is it that you feel that I need to learn???

BTW, I have read Selfs site (some of it) and he seems to have things to learn about high performance audio.
Is he your guru and guidance in life since you feel I need his findings?

/Peter
 
Old 8th April 2003, 08:35 PM   #776
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Default Re: Re: pan...

Quote:
Originally posted by Pan


I do not understand what you mean.
What is it that you feel that I need to learn???

BTW, I have read Selfs site (some of it) and he seems to have things to learn about high performance audio.
Is he your guru and guidance in life since you feel I need his findings?

/Peter


......no...he's not my 'guru'.....but on the basis of what you've written in this and other threads, there is much for you to learn......
 
Old 8th April 2003, 08:41 PM   #777
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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nw_awphile,

"Since Pan is a big fan of the differences in cables, he may also want to read this:"

You are just to funny. What does mr Dunlavys test mean?
Nothing at all, well it means that in that particular test that was the result, so what?

Besides, Im not close to be a "fan of the diff...". Cables is what I care the least for in my rig, its what I have paid the least amount of money for (about $15) and I can assure you that the cable issue is not anything that keeps me awake at night
Most of the effort and money should be concentrated to speakers and room acoustics if one want to experience high performance audio.

About Dunlavy, his loudspeaker is not exactly what I would call SOTA, and in my opinion it may be necessary with higher quality parts to show the difference. I never heard cable differences when I had a speaker with Vifa drivers and normal lively room acoustics. Moving to better drivers and acoustic tools made some difference I can say.

Besides, I dont know how the set up was in that test, maybe Ill go to his site and check out for fun.

"Pan: You are vastly understimating the psychology behind non-blind listening"

No I do not. I have done blind tests and the result is the same for me no matter if blind or not. I have a good pair of ears and a very critical mind. You are wrong. I guess some persons get biased by the press and such, Im not such a person though.

Oh, BTW this may be a laugh for you;

Did yet another blind test a year ago or so, after I moded my SCD-XB940 with LClock and Zapfilter. This mod made this player a very good one from have being one I did not listen to becasue it did sound so bad. Told my friend about the success and we decided to compare my SACD to his $200 carousel Japanese CDP in his set up. His set up is far from my in terms of resolution but it use to sound ok though. He did the swapping and I had no clue which player that was spinning the disc. I could tell the two apart in every instance he played same track on both players, BUT sometimes I mixed them up and simply prefered his cheap CDP to mine. This was depending on which kind of tune was playing. his CDP sounded a little brighter and my a little warmer, and on his not so highly resolved rig, the CDP that sounded best was the one that best matched the tonality of the track playing.
Now, think about this, I take his player to my place and find out that his player sounds better on my rig..... huuuuuuuuhh scary thought

My point: both these players have very low THD and have flat fr. response, I had no problem at all tell them apart in a BLIND LISTENING TEST though.

/Peter
 
Old 8th April 2003, 08:43 PM   #778
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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Default Re: Re: Re: pan...

Quote:
Originally posted by mikek




......no...he's not my 'guru'.....but on the basis of what you've written in this and other threads, there is much for you to learn......

It would help if you could be a little more specific...

/Peter
 
Old 8th April 2003, 09:04 PM   #779
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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"The above link is referenced in this excellent article that talks more about blind testing along with several other references regarding cable myths:"

Yea, Im sure this guy has all the answer... he seems to have a problem understanding Ohms and Volts though judging by reading his thought about interconnects and speaker cables. Hehe!

/Peter
 
Old 8th April 2003, 09:20 PM   #780
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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Default More Dunlavy

Did read that paper and to me it seems reaaaly odd that the guy sets out to design and sell and MAKE MONEY on someting that does not makes a difference...


Also he actually says these words "seldom" and "significant", so that gives..?



/Peter
 

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