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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:08 AM   #641
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Default Re: Re: For The Hearing Challenged...

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Eddy



"Hearing" differences does not in itself establish actual audiblity.


So what does?
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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:22 AM   #642
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Default Re: Re: Re: For The Hearing Challenged...

Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
So what does?
A positive result in a proper, bias-controlled listening test.

Until then, all you've got are empty claims which are in and of themselves, worthless.

se
 
Old 3rd April 2003, 05:24 AM   #643
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Isn't a satisfaction with ones system priceless? If it requires "hearing" things, it's just the means to an end.
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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:33 AM   #644
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
Isn't a satisfaction with ones system priceless?
Absolutely.

But blind listening tests really haven't anything to do with satisfaction in one's system. So I'm at a loss to figure out what your point is.

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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:37 AM   #645
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I've been at loss for the second half of this thread with figuring out the point of it.
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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:42 AM   #646
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
If it requires "hearing" things, it's just the means to an end.
Damn, sit still!

Look, enjoying our systems is a subjective experience. And blind testing should have nothing to do with that process.

But simply enjoying our systems and sharing our subjective experiences is one thing, and there's simply nothing to argue on that count. However when one goes from that paradigm to making objective claims of actual audibility of something, then one has entered an entirely different paradigm.

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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:45 AM   #647
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But when does one know when subjective becomes objective, if ever? How to recognize those experiences without a shadow of a doubt?
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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:48 AM   #648
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
I've been at loss for the second half of this thread with figuring out the point of it.
The point is that insisting that one's subjective perceptions of differences are always and entirely due to actual audible differences and substantiating such instistance by stomping your feet and saying "I know what I hear" is nothing but an illogical, irrational, wholly worthless load of crap.

That put it succinctly enough?

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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:55 AM   #649
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
But when does one know when subjective becomes objective, if ever? How to recognize those experiences without a shadow of a doubt?
That's what bias-controlled listening tests are for. Their goal is to filter out those biases which can influence our subjective perception and cause us to subjectively perceive things even when there's nothing there to actually "hear."

If you can reliably achieve a positive result while ruling out other biases with a fair degree of certainty, then you begin to establish the objective reality. That is that a thing is in fact actually audible.

Until then the jury is out and claims to the contrary are just empty claims.

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Old 3rd April 2003, 05:57 AM   #650
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Think I better stay out of this discussion from now on or my language will start to become ugly

This is just sooo silly!

/Peter
 

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