Blind Listening Tests & Amplifiers

[SY]

You'll have to define "good" and "bad." If the criterion is "output indistinguishable from the input by ear," both the Bryston and Adcom in my house are "good." So is my big triode amp, if the signal is bandlimited to exclude deep bass. So is my little pentode amp, with the same caveat.

[nw_avphile]

Originally posted by analog_sa
I am just curious if the Bryston is the best amp you guys have access to. I have never compared it to an Onkyo but from my point of view they may well be equally bad. Maybe a real amp is needed?

Well then consider the Sunshine Audio Challenge where they used a cheap Yamaha integrated up against a pair of $15,000 monoblocks. Or the similar Carver challenge with a $700 Carver against a $10,000+ tube reference amp.

When I worked for the high-end dealer, we did comparisons with Audio Research amps against an Onkyo integrated amp where none of us could tell them apart in blind tests. I know a lot of you probably think all of our ears were bad, or something was wrong with the rest of the system, but until you've tried it yourself, don't be so quick to jump to such conclusions.

What we need here is for some of the more objective members of this forum to visit the homes of some of our more subjective golden eared members and help conduct some blind listening tests and publish the results here. Those of you who claim you can easily hear the difference can have your chance to do so!

[Pan]

Jeeeeez,

guys, do you "blind test" new girlfriends, "blind drive" new cars,
"blind taste" foods, wines and beers....???

For heavens sake, start listening for real and learn to trust your senses!

Some of these differences are so big it´s totally ridicolous to do blind tests. You who don´t realise that really hasn´t come far in this crazy hobby of ours really, honestly.

Sometimes when I compare stuff, I hear only a small difference, small enough so I honestly can say that I sure could mix them up in a blind test. Most often differences are BIG.

And yes, I have done blind tests several times, and I´m very good at picking out the gear and tell them from eachother.
We have had several non audiophile womans that easily could tell the stuff apart as well.

CD-players, preamps, amps, cables, proffessional recording gear, headphone amps/drivers... I have NEVER found two components that sound the same.

/Peter

[fdegrove]

Hi,

I have NEVER found two components that sound the same.

Amen.

Cheers,

[nania]

fdegrove

quote:
I have NEVER found two components that sound the same.

Amen.

Hmmm? Not even GA diodes? If so how would you even test them?

[fdegrove]

Hi,

Hmmm? Not even GA diodes? If so how would you even test them?

I've never used those GA diodes anyway and if there's a reason why I should should pls. let me know.

Other than that, yes, every little detail has an impact or do you think otherwise?

Ted,

With all due respect: there is no such thing as the universal best diode just as there's no such thing as the universal best xformer or whatever.

There are however certain design criteria one can can adhere to, generalising is not one of them.

Hope that helps,

[SY]

guys, do you "blind test" new girlfriends, "blind drive" new cars, "blind taste" foods, wines and beers....???

Well, in the case of wine, beer, and foods, yes- when I'm doing analytical work. No, when I'm having dinner. ANYONE doing work in the beverage or food industry does organoleptic testing blind.

I haven't tried this with girlfriends yet, mainly because my wife has an autographed 8x10 photo of Lorena Bobbitt prominently displayed.

[nania]

fdegrove

I've never used those GA diodes anyway and if there's a reason why I should should pls. let me know.

You should have noted that my post was a gentle jibe referencing your comments in another thread. Perhaps you decided to elude the reference? That's okay. I think you got my point.

Sy

LOL

[fdegrove]

Hi,

Nania,

I think you got my point.

Sure, I did get the point but that doesn't make it a valid one.

I hope you got my point as well?

[mrfeedback]

Originally posted by SY
I'm sure you set up the test properly and fairly. Time to write that AES paper.

The test setup was a Marantz CDP switchable driving the input of the Denon or protype amplifier, and the speakers were switchable between the output of the Denon or the output of the prototype amplifier.
Same throughput polarity, same cables, same everything.
This way the amplifiers could be instantly compared.

The prototype amplifier although not a complex design is an extremely good design employing a few interesting tricks, and is intended for studio or broadcast monitoring.
This amplifier is far superior to the Denon and I suspect also the Bryston that you mention.
Actually I would say that it is superior to pretty much any amp that I have heard.

The monitors are seriously expensive and seriously good speakers and intended for discriminating studio mixdowns.

The differences between the amplifiers were such that sighted or blind drunk, both of us could distinguish the differences easily.

Maybe an AES paper on hearing differences would be more fruitful than this stupid debate of sonic differences or non differences in amplifiers.

Load dependence, THD distortion, IMD distortion, Frequency response etc etc - these are all measurable, and hearable differences if your ears are up to the task.

All the Carver test proves is that you can make two amplifiers sound the same by eliminating any differences (by the nulling test), and then of course they are going to sound extremely similar, and then expect them to be difficult to distinguish - DUH.

Unaltered amplifiers are easy to distinguish in my experience.
There are two modes of listening in my books and they are - objectively listening for audible differences.

The other mode is to relax back on the couch and note how the in room music affects you down to your soul, and this subjectiveism is the final arbiter in my view.
Some amplifiers leave me cold, some bore the hell out of me, some make me tap my heels involuntarily, and some make me want to get up and dance.
Peter Daniel mentioned this early on in this thread.

If you cannot hear differences I suggest that there is something wrong with the test setup, and that includes one's hearing.

Eric.

Did you ever ask your wife or young children if they can hear differences ?.