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Old 31st March 2003, 09:48 AM   #551
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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This is ridicolous IMO.

Some guys canīt tell the difference and then suggest no one else can either.

About the wife that can tell the difference even on different levels and with different music, that is VERY valid, because the difference must be really noticable to make this kind of result.

Simply put, those that believe that "all amps sound the same" have problem with their ears or brain (the whole complex hearing system) have bad room acoustics or have crappy speakers.

The measurable differences (with todays methods) between cables are small you could say, but still very audible. Same goes for amps, which have much more distortion than a cable.

/Peter
 
Old 31st March 2003, 10:06 AM   #552
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Talking Very well

Yes Peter, very well said.
Until the end of the 70's, almost every people (including those Stereophile "specialists" ) believed every amp sounds the same, the important part of the system was the speakers.
Quad and Naim were saying otherwise for years, and Linn focused on the importance of the source component (trash in, trash out).
All these three brands were right, everybody else were wrong.
Some people still think almost every amps sound the same.

By the way, the theory of the ideal amp is unacheavable (well... at least for now): a peace of wire with gain.
 
Old 31st March 2003, 02:48 PM   #553
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Quad and Naim were saying otherwise for years
Exactly the opposite. Peter Walker (Quad) said many times over the years that two "competently designed" amplifiers operating within their load capabilities sound indistinguishable. And his amps were quite competently designed.
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Old 31st March 2003, 03:16 PM   #554
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Talking yes!

Yes, it may be exactly that what he said.
"two competently designed".
He didn't talk about crappy AV amps, for god's sake!
Well... they didn't exist at that time.
He said that in a time where Hi-Fi was very expensive (50s-60s?).
There was crap also, but much less than today.
Oh, and the wire with gain is one of his theories also.
 
Old 31st March 2003, 03:47 PM   #555
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Default Ear/Brain Interface Problems

Simply put, those that believe that "all amps sound the same" have problem with their ears or brain (the whole complex hearing system) have bad room acoustics or have crappy speakers.

The measurable differences (with todays methods) between cables are small you could say, but still very audible. Same goes for amps, which have much more distortion than a cable.

/Peter


Yes, very well said.
I believe that those who are not hearing fine changes are not hearing correctly.

That is, their absoloute hearing is not good enough, that their systems are not detailed enough, or that they are not listening in the correct mode.

I have encountered 'audiophiles' and 'engineers' who listen in a sine wave testing/listening mode, and not in a 'dsp' mode.
By this I mean they are listening to the initial sounds, but are not hearing deeper into the sound and noting differences in decay/envelope characteristics also.
Also, too much testing equipment whilst listening to sinewave test tones serves too reduce the 'dsp' listening accuity.

Yes, many amplifiers sound perfectly good in the initial sounds, but I find that it is the envelope behavior that distinguishes the ultimate musicality and enjoyment factor of an audio system.

This envelope behaviour can be quite profoundly affected by quality of 240V power, interconnect and speaker cables, electronics and speaker mounting and placement etc, etc.

If the listener is unwilling to deeply relax, and drop any preconcieved notions, then these sonics differences will never be available to them, and it is for them their loss.
I find that women being generally of 'social and emotional' outlook very readily hear differences that the 'enginer' type will not.

Eric / - When my girlfriend likes the sound, then everybody wins.
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Old 31st March 2003, 03:50 PM   #556
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Default What are we talking about ?

Hi Everybody,
Those who are cool as a cucumber and those who are throwing flaming darts. We have a very " illuminating " thread here.

If the major audio improvements took place over the last thirty years or so , we could assume that we made at least a 5% improvement every year. Say in 1970 we had an amp only 50% as good as it should be. 100% being perfect. Then in 30 years we should have very easily crossed 100% or at least be very close to that. That should imply that all good amps today,operated in a reasonable operating environment 'should' sound the same. If not, human intelligence must be crappier than the amplifiers themselves. Huh ?

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Old 31st March 2003, 04:08 PM   #557
Pan is offline Pan  Sweden
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Eric,

I think you are right on and describe very good what this is about.



/Peter
 
Old 31st March 2003, 04:08 PM   #558
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Oh yes, Fantastic!
It's like good cars: you drive the same way a Mercedes SL and a Ferrari! They are both good cars...
There are no two equal things.
A Krell and a Levinson are both good amps, but they don't sound the same.
They "taste" different.
 
Old 31st March 2003, 04:15 PM   #559
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Default I guessed.....

Quote:
It's like good cars: you drive the same way a Mercedes SL and a Ferrari! They are both good cars...............
Like I guessed ......humans are CRAPPIER that the things they make . Or they make them "designer" style ! Enough crap to make them different from each other - for ever! That will keep the business going till we leave this planet. Great business idea!
Cheers.
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Old 31st March 2003, 04:24 PM   #560
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Question what????!

What???
Are you seeing things, did you smoke anything?
Let's keep it fair, no insults, I always put my points of view in a soft way.
If you don't have any sense of humour, then don't bother to answer.
Some people make me laugh, and I laugh with some people.
That's the way.
Give'em Eric, they are all deaf!
 

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