Blind Listening Tests & Amplifiers

[Peter Daniel]

Originally posted by Tube_Dude


But my friend!!!! The test can also be made with music...i talk in 2 volts input only for sake of explanation...
Please...think a bit!!

Ooops! I must haven't been paying enough attention to this fascinating subject.

So this test works well with dynamic signals as well? Interesting...

[planet10]

Originally posted by SY
How do you get a cable to be transparent? Indium Tin Oxide?

You've never heard of transparent Aluminum?

dave

[Tube_Dude]

Originally posted by Peter Daniel


Ooops! I must haven't been paying enough attention to this fascinating subject.

So this test works well with dynamic signals as well? Interesting...

Yes thats the beauty of this method, you can use it with music ,and you can even hear the distortion...instead of a osciloscop use a second amp...conected the same way as the osciloscope!!!
Bingo...then you actualy can hear the distortion residual!!

Interesting??...Isn't it???

[planet10]

Originally posted by traderbam
If you publish the schematic we'll all have a go at ripping it to shreads as is our way.

Peter's amp is a pretty good model of an open source project. How he puts it together is pretty well described in the "not just another gainclone" thread.

When someone buys one they are expressly buying the value added by Peter to the collection of parts.

dave

[Steve Eddy]

Originally posted by planet10
You've never heard of transparent Aluminum?

Sure. It's great for cobbling together whale tanks on starships.

se

[Fred Dieckmann]

Originally posted by nw_avphile
Well it seems this thread is getting hijacked for other purposes... so here are some final thought for now:


The reality is, I don't expect Fred Dieckmann, Peter Daniel, fdegrove, or others like them, to agree with much of what I'm suggesting here (at least not until someone straps them into the sweet spot in their own house and subjects them to a number of indisputable blind tests--and perhaps not even then). They appear to have WAY too much invested in this hobby for someone to come along and burst their balloon and belief system with mere factual information.

Happy constructing and listening to everyone!

[Fred Dieckmann]

Sorry to spilt the post.

You seem to presume to know a lot about my listening methodology and experience. I have been involved in modification, evaluation, and design of high end audio equipment for about a decade a half. I have designed commercial products for Audient Technologies for several years, to favorable reviews in Fi, Positive Feedback, and Audio Adventures. I have had the chance for discussions with and experience with recordings by Keith Johnson of The Dallas Wind Symphony in which my wife plays. I have talked design with and listened to designs from Bill Conrad of Conrad-Johnson, Jeff Rowland, Nelson Pass, Jim Aud of Purist Audio, Ron Hedrich of Marigo Audio Labs, Chris Sommevigo of Illuminati, Dennis Boyle of Chimera labs and many other talented designers and audiophiles. Yes is it an investment in time, money, and learning with the payback of enjoyment. I am not trying to sell anybody anything or push any agenda.

I have the pleasure to hear Cecilia Bartoli sing Rossini and to experience I Musichi playing Vivaldi, an experience that went beyond just listening to music. I find the discussions of the shortcomings of audio equipment in contrast to live music to be curiously absent in your post. I guess I view it more as a life experience than as an investment that anything could make me regret. I have heard productive blind listening test and very unsuccessful blind listening test. I have heard the small details to a design that can make surprising improvements in a system. It is not for everyone and I can't guarantee the same results. I share only my experiences with no strings attached. The interested can take what is useful to them and ignore the rest. I lose nothing and gain only the pleasure of sharing the pleasure and learning I have received in the journey.

"Bursting my balloon and belief system with mere factual information" would require some knowledge of my believe system and how I came to develop it as well as the presentation of actual factual information. It involves no mysticism but only the results of hundreds of hours learning and discovery. I have never felt this to be in conflict with my training and work as an engineer. Designing digital cables and digital interface devices lead to further research into transmission line theory and RF design. That knowledge helped me get a job in telecom working with Signal Integrity, EMI reduction, and protection circuit design. This was another return on my investment in learning from my audio engineering experience. None of my engineering coworkers seem to hold this experience in the disdain that you, also an "engineer" seem to express. You picked a strange place to push your viewpoint. It does a disservice to the many members here working to achieve pleasure from this endeavor. The majority of us here are not trying to urge people to spend large amounts of money to build something that will be a status symbol for a very small number of fellow enthusiast. Your motivation for this appears to be of the "sour grapes" type and hints of possible resentment towards those who have achieved the results you seem to have striven to achieve at one time. Your failure and rationalization for it will hardly discourage many here but will more likely inspire more people to embark on the journey you have so strongly refused to take. We will struggle on without you somehow, since we have seen this kind of ridicule before, but seldom from someone who seemed to begin this journey with the same motivations we have.

Happy constructing and listening to everyone! This is a ironic closing considering your view on constructing good equipment and its contribution to the listening experience.

[RobWells]

I know this thread is getting a bit serious, but I'd like to add some things....

When I upgraded to a cyrus2 amp from my old jvc, I didn't really hear a difference....However..

When said cyrus went pop, and I put the old jvc back into service, my wife even noticed the drop in quality.....She said it sounded flat.....I'd have said there was a lack of attack, and a veiling of low level detail but still.....

My wife has no interest in hifi, and would not be affected by the placebo effect type stuff....Also notice that I didn't really notice the upgrade until I went back to the old amp some 18months later....

I don't think you can judge an amp in an a/b listening test.....You need to use the amp for a few months with lots of different music etc in order to make a fair critique....What sounds good with 4/5 records may not sound best with all the other records in your collection.....

Oh and Fred.....I'm thinking of you as Rutger Haeur at the end of Bladerunner saying (I'm not taking the p*ss btw..I agree with you....)


""I have the pleasure to hear Cecilia Bartoli sing Rossini and to experience I Musichi playing Vivaldi, an experience that went beyond just listening to music. I find the discussions of the shortcomings of audio equipment in contrast to live music to be curiously absent in your post. I guess I view it more as a life experience than as an investment that anything could make me regret. I have heard productive blind listening test and very unsuccessful blind listening test. I have heard the small details to a design that can make surprising improvements in a system. It is not for everyone and I can't guarantee the same results. I share only my experiences with no strings attached. The interested can take what is useful to them and ignore the rest. I lose nothing and gain only the pleasure of sharing the pleasure and learning I have received in the journey.""

[Tube_Dude]

I have the pleasure to hear Cecilia Bartoli sing Rossini and to experience I Musichi playing Vivaldi, an experience that went beyond just listening to music.

So what??
The boy friend of my daughter play cello in the Filarmonic Orchestra of Beiras (Portugal)...he rehearses sometimes at my listenig room...i go very often to concerts...but that don't mean that i must claim here that i have a golden hears...and what i think that sound good is a axiom...

It´s the same that someone claim to be a expert in gastronomy because a friend or relatif is a cook in a famous restaurant...


Let' s use no personal arguments...please...because"one man ceeling is another man floor"..and the personal arguments are only valid for the person that produce this arguments...

[SY]

Fred:

In the field where I'm professionally involved these days (wine), there's a "system" of thought on viticulture called Biodynamics. It is a descendent of theosophy and embraces a number of occult beliefs like burying a cow's horn filled with silica at the corner of the vineyard, but only at the full moon. And homeopathic vineyard treatments.

Most of what Biodynamics offers is rather implausible and has no rigorous evidence. Yet Biodynamicists make, as a group, better wine than average. Does that mean that horns full of silica at the full moon or homeopathy are a significant factor in wine quality? Or is it an effect of what I call "footprints in the vineyard?" The guy who will take the time and effort to do the cow horn and homeopathy baloney is the same guy who will carefully monitor the soil conditions. He'll be out in the vineyard extra often, pruning vine by vine, tending each one in an individual manner.

I think the analogy is obvious.