Naim (split from Blowtorch) - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th July 2008, 05:17 PM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally posted by john curl
[snip] Julian owned the company, so he only had to answer to himself, [snip]

Wrong. If I am his customer, he answers to ME. Period.

Jan Didden
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 05:27 PM   #22
snoopy is offline snoopy  Australia
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Quote:
Originally posted by john curl
It is NOT the topology that Naim uses, but the way that it is implemented. You know, no E-I protection, no output coil, etc. Yes, it makes it non-bulletproof. Julian owned the company, so he only had to answer to himself, and this gave him a sonic advantage. Can't you understand that what a lowly engineer must do to protect himself from being fired, IF something goes wrong with an amp, and he only had to restrict the peak current, and add a output coil, to remove the potential problem? Julian went for 'sound' first, absolute reliability second. Much like Lotus made race cars. Julian used to race cars, so maybe that is where he got that approach.
If he was a wiz bang designer as you claim him to be then he would have made the product both better and reliable at the same time. He obviously didn't know how to make it better so instead he chose to take shortcuts that any other manufacturer could have made and in the process made the whole product unreliable and a potential hazard to the loudspeaker that it was connected too

How could anyone be impressed with that record
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 05:27 PM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
Jan, Julian is dead and gone. Why can't you leave it alone? Coils are not really necessary today, BUT they were important then, IF you also used an exotic cable that had NOT been for sale at the time that Julian made and sold the bulk of his power amps. It was only later that he had problems with so called 'Polk cable' and he had to issue warnings against using hi cap wire, and even made his own 'zip cord'. He could have offered a coil to do the same thing, but he, like me, found that this effected the sound in a bad way. He did it years before me, as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 05:36 PM   #24
bappe is offline bappe  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
bappe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Furulund, SWEDEN
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: What is the problem with Quasi-complementary?

Quote:
Originally posted by snoopy


Rather than offer your subjective opinion can you answer the question why you think this design topology is better than most new amplifier designs ??

As i said, i play music through it, i like it, and after that i try to get "inside" the design to figure out why i liked it. Besides i think i did give you an answer in the last post. Also, some (modern or old) amps sounds so bad that you wonder if their designer listened to them at all.

/Anders
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 05:40 PM   #25
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally posted by john curl
Jan, Julian is dead and gone. Why can't you leave it alone? Coils are not really necessary today, BUT they were important then, IF you also used an exotic cable that had NOT been for sale at the time that Julian made and sold the bulk of his power amps. It was only later that he had problems with so called 'Polk cable' and he had to issue warnings against using hi cap wire, and even made his own 'zip cord'. He could have offered a coil to do the same thing, but he, like me, found that this effected the sound in a bad way. He did it years before me, as well.
John, this is not correct. Naim specifically told their customers to use THEIR cable because otherwise the amp might self-destruct. (Well, to be honest, I think their wording was that their cable 'brought out the best of the amp'. But most of us know how to translate that). Nothing to do with as-then unknown boutique cables.

And it was you who brought up Mr Vereker as the man who also managed to leave out the coil. Apparently you forgot, or were not aware, that that move made the amp unreliable. The same point Bob has been making independently, as well.

You brought the whole thing up, people noted that your reasoning didn't hold, and now you want us to 'leave it alone'. You should have thought that through before.

Jan Didden
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 05:51 PM   #26
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
Jan, AT THE TIME, that Julian made the decision to leave out the coil, he found that the zip cord that everyone used at the time, added enough inductance and there was NO problem with oscillation. Remember, the time was the early 1970's. LATER, when exotic cables were offered, MANY amps tended to oscillate, coil or not, and had to be redesigned. Naim had to do SOMETHING to keep their customers from using exotic and hi cap wire, so they provided one for their customers to use, instead of zip cord, which was considered 'obsolete' at the time. This way, they controlled the inductance, and the amps remained stable, without adding a coil which makes a bigger negative difference to the sound than many here yet realize, especially with 2uH or more, which would be necessary to do anything useful in Naim's case. Remember, this was the 1970's. I suspect that in later years Naim ran on its own inertia, and Julian concentrated on other projects. He might be criticized for this, but it is 'water over the bridge', now.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 06:09 PM   #27
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Err... Ahum, Ehh, were I live, the water flows *under* the bridge.
But we'll burn that bridge when we come to it .

Jan Didden
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 08:14 PM   #28
expert in tautology
diyAudio Member
 
bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York State USA
snoopy,

My recollection - a non-technical one at that - was that Naim marketed well in Europe and then parleyed that into a US/North American presence, using the "Euro" angle for that. It appealed to those who did not want/like the typical American "big techno gear" look (Crown, Phase Linear, SAE, others...), and prefered that understated smooth look but didn't have the bux$ for B&O!

As far as the Japanese amplifiers of that day, not the Kenwoody or Pieonear receivers (etc.), my recollection is that they tended to be a bit lean, and often grainy to the ear. That especially being Yamaha and Mitsubishi stuff, Sony too... the exception iirc, is/was STAX.

Some of the Kenwoody and Pieonear recievers still sound pretty nice for casual listening - like the one doing background music in the lab here now... NP: Fillmore East 1970 GD...

----

General thought, my recollection:

Back in the 70's the trend "on the other side of the pond" was for smaller speakers, smaller amps, and a more "gentile" sound - less bass, smoother mids, less highs. Generally speaking rooms are/were smaller.

Not sure what Japan was doing other than chasing the USA market... although many back then were buying up the older USA tube and horn speakers even then...

Here in the USA, the trend was big bass, LOUD speakers, the most power you could figure out how to put together.

Different.

----

Jan,

I think that's "...bomb the bridges..." I think we're well past burning at this point??

----

1audio,

could you shoot me an email? the address on ur website bounces...

----

Mr. Curl,

Well, lessee, we've covered the circus, oops i mean the circuitry. That leaves the wiring, the switching and the GROUND(s)?? Afaik, none of that makes an iota of difference...

_-_-bear



PS. everyone else who complains too much?: Try to ignore your perception of Mr. Curl, focus on the wealth of information and insight that this thread embodies instead. Make a contribution, ask a question, illuminate an issue?
__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 08:21 PM   #29
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
more "gentile" sound
Suitable for church choral music, presumably.
__________________
You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.- Wilford Brimley
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th July 2008, 09:07 PM   #30
fredex is offline fredex  New Zealand
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Zealand
I agree with bear's comments

Naim were tied up wth Linn and shared dealerships, the Linn Naim system was pushed as a package. It was an antidote to the high tech Japanese 'new model every six months' idea. Hand crafted in England by people who cared about sound and it was tailored to British ears. The sales people were all well trained and told you what to listen for in the sound. The competion were still selling on specifications. This marketing strategy worked well as it was very "timely". These days we are all a little more cynical ........ or is it just me?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:11 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2