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Old 8th July 2008, 05:42 AM   #121
snoopy is offline snoopy  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by fastdata
Meters say nothing,there is good distortion and bad dist... as
there is good cholesterol and bad

engineers unite for better sound by ear evaluation

I hate distortion meters aaaaaaaaaaaaah

AKSA rules!
Whose ears do you propose to use as a reference and why do I have to put with poorly designed equipment based around someone else's subjective perception of what they think is good.

If they were willing to submit their equipment to properly conducted double blind listening tests where one of the comparisons was a real live music performance then I would agree that this sort of listening test had a lot of merit

But of course you so called "audio gurus won't do this instead you like to insulate yourself from reality
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Old 8th July 2008, 05:44 AM   #122
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I tend to agree, even if I have $50,000 (when it was new) worth of test equipment, I still can't measure everything that I want. I think that JCX on another thread has shown me a hidden source of higher order distortion in my test setup. His printout made my day! One thing that I have found important, higher order odd distortion will almost always make a hi fi sound 'metallic'. Real designers have known this for at least 70 years.
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Old 8th July 2008, 05:44 AM   #123
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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And for the 100th time can you please explain these finer points in the following format :-
Hey Snoopy,

No one here has to do anything just because you demand it. Please be a bit more civil. If they don't want to respond to your rather agressive and repetitive style, then move on. No point in repeating yourself as that just leads to more discussions of peoples private lives, which is off topic and makes this thread even more pointless..

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Old 8th July 2008, 05:45 AM   #124
snoopy is offline snoopy  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Variac


Hey Snoopy,

No one here has to do anything just because you demand it. Please be a bit more civil. If they don't want to respond to your rather agressive and repetitive style, then move on. No point in repeating yourself as that just leads to more discussions of peoples private lives, which is off topic and makes this thread even more pointless..

Then don't make extraordinary claims in order to belittle others.

Private lives ?? What's that got to do with the price of fish on Mars ??
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Old 8th July 2008, 05:47 AM   #125
Variac is offline Variac  United States
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Exactly, they are so bored they are talking about nothing
You are being rather aggressive-perhaps the one belittling. That doesn't go over well around here..
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Old 8th July 2008, 06:08 AM   #126
snoopy is offline snoopy  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Variac
Exactly, they are so bored they are talking about nothing
You are being rather aggressive-perhaps the one belittling. That doesn't go over well around here..
I am genuinely not trying to belittle anyone except I do admit that I am a bit aggressive towards people who like to hide behind extraordinary claims with no valid explanation.

I just asked John to explain the claimed finer points in a circuit diagram. Surely that's not being aggressive. Why can't he do this so that everyone on this forum can benefit ??

What's the point of having a public debate if you can't ask someone to back up their claims with evidence ?? If people won't back up their claims then people with lesser knowledge can easily be mislead by bogus claims and you end up with a forum full of propaganda and mis truths. Surely that's not what you ?? Either something is or it isn't !!
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Old 8th July 2008, 06:46 AM   #127
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It is not my job to teach you the fine points of Julian's circuits. I already pointed out the higher F(t) with good safe area power transistor that Julian found. It is true that the driver stage is almost exactly what Nelson Pass used for years, successfully, I might add. Julian apparently put effort into other areas as well, but I am not an expert of his amps, and have seen few REAL Naim schematics to see the fine points, and even if I pointed them out, you would not believe me.
This is because you are arguing from a prejudice, rather than from experience.
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Old 8th July 2008, 07:18 AM   #128
snoopy is offline snoopy  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by john curl
It is not my job to teach you the fine points of Julian's circuits. I already pointed out the higher F(t) with good safe area power transistor that Julian found. It is true that the driver stage is almost exactly what Nelson Pass used for years, successfully, I might add. Julian apparently put effort into other areas as well, but I am not an expert of his amps, and have seen few REAL Naim schematics to see the fine points, and even if I pointed them out, you would not believe me.
This is because you are arguing from a prejudice, rather than from experience.
Why don't you just say that there are no refinements apart from the obvious things you have mentioned previously instead of surrounding the whole design in an air of mystique and magic and in the process trying to mislead others on this forum !!
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Old 8th July 2008, 07:20 AM   #129
VivaVee is offline VivaVee  New Zealand
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[QUOTE] And which 'way' is that ?? Is it your way, the next door neighbours way ?? Which 'way' is it ??[QUOTE]

Scary isn't it? The more people you have, the more opinions there are. Even scarier, their opinion may differ from yours or mine. Don't worry though, when I get to dominate the world there will only be one opinion and it will be the right one. Trouble is, I'm still trying to figure out what that opinion should be...

Back to your question. The answer is all of the above. I would even accept your opinion. You should be worried now. '


[QUOTE] also posted by Snoopy
An amplifier is supposed to scale up the signal that is fed to it so that it can drive a suitable loudspeaker load in order to accurately reproduce the musical signal fed to it. It should do nothing more and nothing less !!![QUOTE]

Would you worry if I agreed with you? Trouble is, this statement doesn't advance the argument at all. It still leaves the question of how you decide that this goal has been achieved.

If I wished to design/build and amp, I would look at examples that met my design goals. If vanishing low harmonic distortion on simulation and physical measurement was my criteria, then I would examine Edmond's amplifier (please accept my apologies if I got yr design goal wrong, Edmond). If I fancied something designed with more subjective goals in mind then perhaps I would at Charles Hansen's work.

For the record, I have built many amplifiers over the years, and kept a small number. I consider every single one to be successful (nothing like judging yr own competition). Every one was different in terms of topology, amplifying technology etc. If I was to start building another one tomorrow, I fancy I might try Edmond's design as the output stage error correction idea is about the only thing i haven't tasted.
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Hope is not a reliable design discipline
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Old 8th July 2008, 07:46 AM   #130
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"suitable loudspeaker load" has been somewhat differently interpreted in the UK over the years.

I'm not entirely impartial about Mr Vereker because of his innovative efforts in yacht design, but the man deserves a little more credit than bashing him 10 years after his departure.
Naim is not my cup of tea either, but Julian Vereker did have the balls to pick his own approach instead of hopping along, as did the majority of the peculiar Brit designers.
Question is not if Naim was a marketing scam or grand circuitry in the past, but whether it had an influence on today's events.
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