Bleeder Resistor Advice - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th March 2003, 09:15 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winnipeg MB Canada
Default Bleeder Resistor Advice

Hello,

I have added 22,000 uf filter caps to my integrated amp and 15,000 uf filter caps to my cd player.

I have upgraded the bridge in both units to higher amperage units.

I get a bit of popping in the speakers when I turn the units on or off. I have searched the forums for advice on bleeder resistors but have only found limited advice.

The large caps in both the cd player are working at about 30 volts.

My question is what value and rating and type of resistor(s) will I need to use with these caps?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks
KevinLee
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2003, 10:15 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Auburn, WA (somewhere between Seattle and Tacoma)
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via ICQ to Damon Hill
from Watt's Law (resistance = voltage squared/power)

for a one watt resistor, 900 ohm (1000 is good)
for a two watt resistor, 450 ohm (470 is a common value)
for a five watt resistor, 180 ohms

of course, you may want to select a higher wattage resistor
for a given resistor value; the actual power dissipation is
determined by the resistance, but a larger resistor will be
cooler and less stressed.

Wirewounds are usually best and fairly commonly available in these values. Too much current drawn will increase ripple and load down the (unregulated) supply voltage, which may cause regulation problems in certain circumstances.

I doubt that this will cure the popping.
Bleeder resistors are usually a safety feature in high voltage
supplies.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th March 2003, 10:27 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winnipeg MB Canada
Hello,

Thanks for the resistor values.

I will give a little more background. In the cd player I have removed the muting transistors at the output. After this mod I a little bit of a speaker pop when turning off the cd player and once in a while while changing tracks.

Now that I have added the larger caps in the power supply, the popping is more violent when turning off the cd player.

Thanks

KevinLee
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th March 2003, 12:51 AM   #4
OliverD is offline OliverD  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
OliverD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Germany
You can add a relay to short the output down to ground. (A small series resistor of 100 Ohms between LP output and RCA connector might be necessary if it's not already there). The relay should be controlled by the same signal that controlled the muting transistors before.

That way, you will have a functional muting circuit without additional relay contacts or semiconductors in the signal path.

Unlike adding those bleeder resistors, it will cure the turn-on/off pops.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2003, 08:54 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
EchoWars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Left of the Dial
Quote:
I have added 22,000 uf filter caps to my integrated amp and 15,000 uf filter caps to my cd player.
If your power switch is wired through the transformer secondary, then before too long a 'pop' on turn on or turn off will be the least of your problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2003, 11:03 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winnipeg MB Canada
EchoWars,

I do not like the sound of that.

Care to expand?

I know that a lot of people add larger caps to their power supplies, is their some safety/performance guidelines?

Thanks

KevinLee
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2003, 11:19 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Auburn, WA (somewhere between Seattle and Tacoma)
Blog Entries: 1
Send a message via ICQ to Damon Hill
Increased power supply capacitance will mean a greater
current surge during the first few half-cycles at turnon. If
the power switch is wired to the secondary windings, the
current will be greater.

The risk here is that the switch contacts will burn out. There
may be a risk of blowing out the rectifiers, too. The latter
could be more damaging to circuit boards and components
if the fuse doesn't blow out very shortly thereafter.

I have a DIY amplifier based on the Leach design with a quarter
Farad of capacitance in the power supply; by using a double
throw center-off switch, I can start the amplifier through a
6 ohm surge limiting resistor. You might want to consider a
thermistor (high resistance cold, low resistance warm or hot)
in the switch circuit.

It >might< help to put a small capacitor, say .01 to .1, rated for
AC line use, across the switch contacts to reduce arcing. Possibly a RC snubber instead of the capacitor, but I'd have to experiment to guess at appropriate values.

I think your turn-on pops are more a 'feature' of the circuit design, which is why there is a muting circuit.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th March 2003, 11:25 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winnipeg MB Canada
Thanks Damon hill,

This is what I suspected. I have upgraded the rectifiers to handle the extra surge, but then there is the switch (the weakest link thing).

I will take your advice and add an ac rated cap to the switch to start.

Thanks again.

KevinLee
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2003, 02:47 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
EchoWars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Left of the Dial
I've worked on a lot of amps with 'frozen' power switches, and these with 'stock' values of PS caps. The current surge is huge with the values of caps you are describing. Expect failure of the switch regardless of if you add a cap (mains rated!!) to the switch or not.

Since you are in there digging around anyway, perhaps consider using the power switch to operate a relay (nice, hefty one)...let the relay carry the current, not the switch. This is how it is done on a lot of high-end amps with tons of f capacitence.
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2003, 02:55 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winnipeg MB Canada
Echo Wars,

I will do some research on how to install a relay into my amplifier to 'carry the current' as you described.

A little bit more info:

When I turn the amplifier off, it still runs for about 30 seconds as the caps are discharging. The 'pop' that I hear through my speakers happens at the very end of this discharge process. (I can see the power on indicator LED slowly dimming and then go out as the 'pop happens)

This 'pop' noise has gotten worse the last few days. I do not know what to make of this.

I checked the schematic and the switch in the amplifier has a 'spark arrestor' installed across the switch. Is this the same as the cap you were talking about?

Would you be able to suggest what kind of relay to use and how to hook it up? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

KevinLee
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bleeder resistor! lanchile Chip Amps 15 24th February 2009 10:06 PM
Power Amp P.S. Bleeder Resistor Reg? fastcat95 Solid State 2 28th April 2008 05:10 AM
Bleeder Resistor Placement dsavitsk Tubes / Valves 2 31st December 2005 12:38 AM
Bleeder resistor action sam9 Solid State 8 15th May 2003 08:48 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:36 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2