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Old 24th March 2008, 03:20 AM   #1
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Default AMPs that DO sound Different??

Ok, the thread on amps that do not sound different has been running for a while.

It made me think - what about amps that we can agree do sound different than some standard of non-difference? Since the position of many apparently is that a majority of amplifiers that are reasonably well made and with reasonably good specs are indistinguishable in terms of audibility, what are examples of commercial amps that do not meet this criteria??

I'll start it off, how about:

- Phase Linear 400 or 700
- Krell KSA 50 or 100 or 200
- Crown DC 300
- Bryston (any model of the first 10 years or so)
- Hafler DH200
- Dyna 400
- Parasound HCA1000
- Levinson ML-2


which of these all sound the same, and which do not equal the "sound the same" criteria??

NOW OBVIOUSLY, we don't have an actual ABX test going on here, and we don't have a "blameless" amplfier (one that sounds the same as so many others for comparison), but since so many amps "sound the same" it shouldn't be very difficult to move this discussion along, and get some concensus on units that are prime candidates for sounding "different"??

How about it??

_-_-bear



After we get to a list of "different sounding amps" maybe we can discect the topology and find some basis? Or engage in other interesting avenues of approach?
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Old 24th March 2008, 05:26 AM   #2
KP11520 is offline KP11520  United States
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Hey Bear,

NY State is a lot of ground. I have two different amps that I would bring to a listening trial, asuming that you aren't too far from Long Island!

Hafler DH500 stock (can't be too different from a DH200)

Rotel RHB10 Michi (nice)

Funny, they sound different to me!

Regards//Keith
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Old 24th March 2008, 01:24 PM   #3
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I have a definate contender..

My beloved Musical fidelity A100

Nobody can deny it has it's own charactaristicly warm soft sound. It can also double up as a handy cooking grill too



Leigh
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Old 24th March 2008, 01:29 PM   #4
bigwill is offline bigwill  United Kingdom
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NAD 3020s seem to have their own warm characteristic sound
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Old 25th March 2008, 12:57 PM   #5
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well, obviously all amps do sound different then... a paucity of response.
either that or they all sound the same... so hard to tell...?





_-_-bear
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Old 25th March 2008, 01:06 PM   #6
SY is offline SY  United States
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By "sound the same," do you mean "unable to be differentiated in a conventional blind test"? Or do you mean "really sound the same, no-one will ever be able to design a controlled test that will show identification"?

What's the load?

Sorry, you know me- always questions, questions, questions.
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Old 25th March 2008, 01:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: AMPs that DO sound Different??

Quote:
Originally posted by bear
Ok, the thread on amps that do not sound different has been running for a while.

It made me think - what about amps that we can agree do sound different than some standard of non-difference? Since the position of many apparently is that a majority of amplifiers that are reasonably well made and with reasonably good specs are indistinguishable in terms of audibility, what are examples of commercial amps that do not meet this criteria??

I'll start it off, how about:

- Phase Linear 400 or 700
- Krell KSA 50 or 100 or 200
- Crown DC 300
- Bryston (any model of the first 10 years or so)
- Hafler DH200
- Dyna 400
- Parasound HCA1000
- Levinson ML-2


which of these all sound the same, and which do not equal the "sound the same" criteria??

NOW OBVIOUSLY, we don't have an actual ABX test going on here, and we don't have a "blameless" amplfier (one that sounds the same as so many others for comparison), but since so many amps "sound the same" it shouldn't be very difficult to move this discussion along, and get some concensus on units that are prime candidates for sounding "different"??

How about it??

_-_-bear


After we get to a list of "different sounding amps" maybe we can discect the topology and find some basis? Or engage in other interesting avenues of approach?

So, you'r just after anecdotes and free-flying stories, no real tests that have any significance, then? Fine with me, but just curious.

Jan Didden
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Old 25th March 2008, 01:27 PM   #8
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Noooo... I be fly fishin' Jan!

SY, come forth with your best data/information/engineering/science or anechdotal and apocryphal prose!

I just would like to know if anyone at all, on any basis - especially "level matched scientific blind test" - can cite where two different amps sound different. In EITHER or both of "unable to be differentiated in a conventional blind test"? Or do you mean "really sound the same, no-one will ever be able to design a controlled test that will show identification"

Let's not get too involved with the semantics and let's deal with the gestalt and grok it man!

_-_-bear

PS. do the amps on my list all sound the same if tested in a properly conducted ABX, blind or other testing paradigm deemed appropriate by those who do deeming of such things?? Yes, no? If not, why??
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Old 25th March 2008, 01:47 PM   #9
SY is offline SY  United States
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Sure, I can name one. It was in Audio Amateur, early '80s, a comparison between an Audio Research transistor amp and (I think) a Mark Levinson. Good methodology and the amps were distinguishable.

After you look it up, you'll understand better why I try to be precise in my qualifications.
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Old 25th March 2008, 03:28 PM   #10
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SY,

I like you. But you are engaging in obfuscation.

But let me put you down for some sort of Audio Research and some model or another of ML sounding different according to Audio Amateur - you in accord with their findings??

Maybe it's a start??

Wait a second... those are the only two amps that you believe meet the "required engineering criteria" and sound different? All others sound the same then for all intents and purposes??

("required engineering criteria" = ~...unclipped, blah blah, level matched, blah blah, blind tested, blah blah blah... etc...)

Let's not deal with anything much that dates from the 80s in terms of "listening" types of tests??

Unless we're discussing a methodology and the merits or lack thereof? Oh, and we're not...

_-_-bear
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