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Old 18th January 2013, 08:46 AM   #111
bonalux is offline bonalux  Italy
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Just my 2 cents..I've tried using silver solder, only to obtain ugly solder joints and no difference that three people was aware of in sound quality...so I will stick with SN/PB at least until I can found it.

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Old 18th January 2013, 08:59 AM   #112
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5daudio View Post
the most accurate post in this thread.....
tell you a story

once I wanted to give a young famely memeber a bit better headphones for his 'walkman'
old days kind of ipod, to those who don't know
anyway, headsets were nothing famcy or expencive
had the choice between two

I chose to plug them into a old style classic parametric equalizer
chose setting, and shifted between EQ and 'straight'
on one headphone I could hear difference, on the other I couldn't
so I decided that the one where I heard a small difference would be the one

and where am I going with this
well, the funny thing is, today I can still hear the strangest small differences or changes.... no matter what kind of solder I choose to use
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Old 18th January 2013, 09:27 AM   #113
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5daudio View Post
the most accurate post in this thread, at least you have listened in blind tests, its not blind speculation about things you think you understand but don't,
nothing makes me laugh more than having a dataman/meter watcher scratch his head in disbelief when you can identify blind 10 or 20 times in a row what they can't hear or measure.
Unfortunately, he didn't say that.
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Old 18th January 2013, 09:29 AM   #114
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Re the EU's ROHS legislation, does anyone know whether the following article is accurate?

Quote:
There may be hot competition for the title of the craziest EU directive of them all, but a front runner must be one which comes into force at the end of this month. Designed to protect the environment and human health, this law is imposing costs of tens of billions of pounds on businesses, not only in Europe but across the world.

It is based, it now turns out, on scientific studies so flawed that it will only cause further damage to both the environment and health. It will also result in products which the EU itself admits will be less reliable than those we have now.

Some years back an American academic, Timothy Townsend, professor of environmental engineering science at the University of Florida, did studies appearing to show that there was a hazard to health from lead and other metals leaching out of landfill sites into water supplies. This seemed important because of the hundreds of millions of lead-containing electronic products, from cathode ray tubes to the lead solder in computers, that go to landfill.

The EU's legislators went into overdrive to combat this threat with two directives, one of which, on the Restriction on Hazardous Substances in Electrical and Electronic Equipment, comes into force on July 1, banning any use of lead and five other metals in electronic products. This means that all electronics firms in the EU, and anyone wishing to export into the EU, have had to find lead-free substitutes, not least for the mass of solder in every computer circuit board.

Only when the legislation was under way were further American studies carried out, including two involving Prof Townsend himself, which measured the impact of leachate in field conditions and found that the earlier tests had exaggerated the danger by more than 100 times. Under modern landfill quality control, the leachates posed no discernible hazard.
Christopher Booker's notebook - Telegraph
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Old 18th January 2013, 10:13 AM   #115
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
The solder I had been using for quite some years has nearly run out. It was a 60/38/2 sn/pb/cu blend.

I hadn't been able to find any to replace it but just did a search of element14's website today and found I can buy 250g 500g and 1KG rolls of it, as well as 60/38/2 sn/pb/ag solder in various sizes.

The copper blend is cheaper. any oppinions on pros and cons of using the copper rather than silver? The copper has a 183c melting point and the silver 179c melting point.

Tony.
I heard bad reports about soldering simplicity with the one with copper, but if you have used for years and the new roll is exactly the same brand and model, why not? Was it Ersin multicore brand perhaps?
The other one, just make sure is Eutectic (it seems so since you posted a single temp melting point).

Besides this, it shouldn't have any inpact on sound, the conductivity of silver is just a bit more.
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Old 18th January 2013, 10:17 AM   #116
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Copper was added as a tip saver (SAVBIT) other than that I dont think there is any other benefit.
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/315929.pdf
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Old 18th January 2013, 10:19 AM   #117
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonalux View Post
Just my 2 cents..I've tried using silver solder, only to obtain ugly solder joints and no difference that three people was aware of in sound quality...so I will stick with SN/PB at least until I can found it.
Use silver solder that is NOT lead free, maybe read all thread again
In short, what gives bad looking joints is NOT the silver, but the lack of lead.

marce:
"Ersin Multicore Savbit Solder is produced
especially to overcome the problem of ordinary
tin/lead solders dissolving copper."

Basically it is the same reason why Tek used silver-containing solder in its scopes, where there are copper pins (or cables ) it is better to use solder that contains the same metal.
This has been explained in more rigorous terms (than I ever could) a couple pages earlier.

Most PCB have tinned pads, therefore any solder containing tin (=all of them) will bond. I think zero issues are also caused by gold-plated pads (they have the advantage of not oxidizing over time, which is the main cause of bad solder joints).

wow i feel less of a noob reading this tread
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Last edited by Telstar; 18th January 2013 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 18th January 2013, 10:29 AM   #118
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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The encouragement in some earlier posts to resolder joints ought to have been accompanied with a newbie warning: in many cases 'resoldering' is as likely to degrade a good joint as improve a bad one, especially when done by someone who is relatively new to soldering or has lots of experience in doing it badly.

Fairly frequently people pop up in forums like this and say something like "I have redone all the joints in my XXX and now it doesn't work". Usually, they have no circuit diagram (or the knowledge to read it if they had) and little or no test equipment. Remote debugging of an item which has probably several newly introduced bad joints is not easy. Sometimes the unit has to be thrown away - hardly an 'improvement' in its sound!

My take on resoldering is to use it as a repair technique, not an 'upgrade' technique. Only do it to joints which look bad, or symptom diagnosis indicates may be bad, or which misbehave when mechanically disturbed. I sometimes cheat and simply reheat the joint and add a little solder, but at least I know that this is cheating (I should remove the old solder and remake the joint from scratch).
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Old 18th January 2013, 10:39 AM   #119
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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just now slaughtered this wall plug thing, because I wanted the trafo
looking at it I thought, maybe I should save/use the diode board
until I looked at solder side
looks real nasty

solder looks shiny and new
any idea why it looks like this
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Old 18th January 2013, 10:40 AM   #120
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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And possibly ruining the pcb in the meantime, especially if home-made with thin copper traces.
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