Hello all,
I just bought a Behringer EP-2500 amplifier to power a stereo subwoofer setup. I have a Dayton Reference HO 12 inch woofer in a ported enclosure hooked up to one channel. This 4 ohm load should give the woofer 650 watts rms. I have hooked up my ipod and my computer directly to the amp using the large headphone jack looking input. Playing music out of the ipod and using a signal generator on the computer, neither method gave me loud results. At all, the signal light barely came on, so nowhere near to clipping. Are my input sources too weak? I notice the amp at my church does the same thing, meter lights barely register only that is someone talking. I have the volumes on my devices turned all the way up and the gain on the amp to at least 3 o'clock.
With 650 watts I figured the sub could reach full excursion, but it's not even moving hardly. I know the amp puts out what it states so its alot of power.
I'm lost
thanks
Dan
If this needs to be moved to subwoofers I'm sorry
I just bought a Behringer EP-2500 amplifier to power a stereo subwoofer setup. I have a Dayton Reference HO 12 inch woofer in a ported enclosure hooked up to one channel. This 4 ohm load should give the woofer 650 watts rms. I have hooked up my ipod and my computer directly to the amp using the large headphone jack looking input. Playing music out of the ipod and using a signal generator on the computer, neither method gave me loud results. At all, the signal light barely came on, so nowhere near to clipping. Are my input sources too weak? I notice the amp at my church does the same thing, meter lights barely register only that is someone talking. I have the volumes on my devices turned all the way up and the gain on the amp to at least 3 o'clock.
With 650 watts I figured the sub could reach full excursion, but it's not even moving hardly. I know the amp puts out what it states so its alot of power.
I'm lost
thanks
Dan
If this needs to be moved to subwoofers I'm sorry
Hello Dan, I would say that you need a preamp between the input(s) on the power amp and your ipod or computer output. I'm a little surprised about the computer. The thing that you need to take into account is that the Behringer says it can output 650w, but there is probably a specification in the manual somewhere that says what the input voltage is to produce the 650w output. It's quite likely that the ipod and computer sound card can't create this level of voltage necessary.
A question I have is you say you are using this amp in a mono configuration. Are you just using one channel on the amp, and leaving the other one floating, or is the amp capable of being set as a bridge mono amp. If it is capable of bridge mono, there is probably a switch on the back of the amp that needs to be set for this, and if you look in the manual, it probably says something about using the positive terminals of the two channels as the places to hook up your single driver.
I am also curious, do you have any sort of crossover in the system, or are you relying on the natural rolloff of the subwoofer driver to provide the cutoff frequency. I personally would suggest an active low pass filter between the output of your preamp and the input of the power amp.
Sorry it's so long winded.
Peace,
Dave
A question I have is you say you are using this amp in a mono configuration. Are you just using one channel on the amp, and leaving the other one floating, or is the amp capable of being set as a bridge mono amp. If it is capable of bridge mono, there is probably a switch on the back of the amp that needs to be set for this, and if you look in the manual, it probably says something about using the positive terminals of the two channels as the places to hook up your single driver.
I am also curious, do you have any sort of crossover in the system, or are you relying on the natural rolloff of the subwoofer driver to provide the cutoff frequency. I personally would suggest an active low pass filter between the output of your preamp and the input of the power amp.
Sorry it's so long winded.
Peace,
Dave
Hello Again Dan, I was taking a look at the manual for your amp, downloaded it from Behringers website. Besides having to set switches and hook the speaker wire to the positive terminals from each channel for mono mode, it says that only the channel 1 controls are used for input control, and to keep the channel 2 input level control set to minimum (all the way left or counterclockwise), otherwise there could be cancellation of signals due to phase inversion. If you have the amp configured for mono, but the channel 2 input level turned up, this could also cause a problem like you describe.
Peace,
Dave
Peace,
Dave
Hi Dave thanks for the help. I have one channel hooked up and the other one is floating. There is no crossover inbetween, I just wanted to test it out. How can I figure out how many volts my devices are putting out? I hooked my ipod up to my Onkyo m-504 power amp with no problems but maybe the behringer needs a higher voltage input. I'll take a look at the manual to see what it needs. I'll see if I can borrow a preamp also. Should a home audio preamp give a strong enough signal?
Thanks again
Dan
Thanks again
Dan
Hello Dan, I would suspect that any conventional home audio preamp should be able to provide the voltage input level necessary to get the Behringer going. If you were able to drive the Onkyo, I would think that you should get decent volume with the Behringer.
Looking at the Behringer manual, make sure that the switches for Bridge mode are set to off, since you are only plugged into one channel for now. Also make sure the settings for Stereo/Parallel are in Stereo mode for now. And make sure the other switches are set to off.
Also, make sure that the cable you are using to connect between the ipod and the amp is wired correctly. You will need a cable that goes from the stereo 1/8" plug for the ipod, to a pair of 1/4" mono plugs to plug into the inputs on the Behringer. One of the things different here is that the Onkyo is most likely an unbalanced input and the Behringer is setup for either balanced or unbalanced. To get the unbalanced inputs to work correctly, the incoming connectors need to be wired correctly. Page 11 of the Behringer manual shows how to wire the connectors for either balanced input or unbalanced input.
Hope this helps,
Dave
Looking at the Behringer manual, make sure that the switches for Bridge mode are set to off, since you are only plugged into one channel for now. Also make sure the settings for Stereo/Parallel are in Stereo mode for now. And make sure the other switches are set to off.
Also, make sure that the cable you are using to connect between the ipod and the amp is wired correctly. You will need a cable that goes from the stereo 1/8" plug for the ipod, to a pair of 1/4" mono plugs to plug into the inputs on the Behringer. One of the things different here is that the Onkyo is most likely an unbalanced input and the Behringer is setup for either balanced or unbalanced. To get the unbalanced inputs to work correctly, the incoming connectors need to be wired correctly. Page 11 of the Behringer manual shows how to wire the connectors for either balanced input or unbalanced input.
Hope this helps,
Dave
Hello Dan, The crossover might help a little, but I doubt it will have a great effect on what you are experiencing. I suspect that now you have too much voltage gain from the preamp of your NAD 7155, this is driving the input stage of the power amp to clipping. What I would suggest is to use the input level controls on the front of the Behringer to limit the maximum level that the input stage of the power amp will see. This will give you greater usage of the volume control on the NAD, while still keeping clipping to a minimum.
The advantage to the active crossover in line before the power amp is that you will be able to adjust the cutoff frequency of the subwoofer so that there is less interference with the bass/midbass drivers in your main listening speakers. Without the crossover, it's possible that there will be too much output in the region where the sub and midbass overlap, making it boomy and unrealistic.
Is the Dayton driver you are using as a SUB a single or dual voice coil design, and what are the specs on this driver? Knowing these can help adjust things better.
Peace,
Dave
P.S. How are you and your wife doing handling your loss? Hope things are improving.
The advantage to the active crossover in line before the power amp is that you will be able to adjust the cutoff frequency of the subwoofer so that there is less interference with the bass/midbass drivers in your main listening speakers. Without the crossover, it's possible that there will be too much output in the region where the sub and midbass overlap, making it boomy and unrealistic.
Is the Dayton driver you are using as a SUB a single or dual voice coil design, and what are the specs on this driver? Knowing these can help adjust things better.
Peace,
Dave
P.S. How are you and your wife doing handling your loss? Hope things are improving.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-466&CFID=20313424&CFTOKEN=18044367
Here is a link to the driver. It was very kind of you to ask about our loss. I think we have moved on, my wife already has another kitten. I had the volume nob on the nad at about 3 o'clock when it started clipping. If I turned the gain down, it wouldn't clip but wouldn't I get less volume (db)? I am going to take the amp to my brothers because he is a dj and has a bunch of equipment to help me test it. I just don't understand how I can't get full power out of the amp.
If you get any other ideas let me know, thanks again youo have been VERY helpful.
Dan
Here is a link to the driver. It was very kind of you to ask about our loss. I think we have moved on, my wife already has another kitten. I had the volume nob on the nad at about 3 o'clock when it started clipping. If I turned the gain down, it wouldn't clip but wouldn't I get less volume (db)? I am going to take the amp to my brothers because he is a dj and has a bunch of equipment to help me test it. I just don't understand how I can't get full power out of the amp.
If you get any other ideas let me know, thanks again youo have been VERY helpful.
Dan
Hello Dan, If you are referring to the full ability of the amp to produce 2400 Watts, then you would have to use the amp in bridge mono mode. You would also destroy the subwoofer using this kind of power continuously, since the driver is only rated for 700w cont. 1200w peak. If you are just trying to get the full 650 watts out of one channel, and then perhaps get a second driver for separate subwoofers for each channel then keep the amp in bridge mode off, stereo mode. Make sure that the low cut filter is turned off also. If this is on, it will cutoff the lowest frequencies. These are the frequencies that require the most power and will also move the sub the furthest. Don't necessarily expect full travel from the sub, there are a lot of variables that affect the total movement of a driver.
Your statement about limiting the dB is accurate, somewhat. The difference being that you can only get so much power out of an amplifier, but if you want that power to be clean, i.e. no clipping, it requires proper level matching between the preamp and the power amp. I would suggest turning the input level on the power amp down all the way, turn the preamp up to around 3 to 4 o'clock, then start bringing the level control on the power amp up until it starts to clip. Once you have hit that point, turn the level control back a little so you avoid clipping. This will give you the maximum clean output for the power amp.
Now if you really want to test the bass output capabilities of this setup, get some bass heavy rap (yechh), or something like the 1812 overture (BUUUWWWWAAAHHHHHAAAAA!!) If you don't knock down pictures, crack walls and scare neighbors, then there is a problem. It could be something with the power amp, or the enclosure design limits the maximum capabilities of the power amp and speaker.
Keep in mind to make sure that the cable going from the NAD to the input on the Behringer is wired correctly for the application.
It's nice to know that you and your wife are healing. I read your post about Rajah, it's never fun to lose a friend. Sometimes the furry ones are easier to deal with than the human ones. I'm also glad you brought another animal into your home. You sound like people who really care about your animals, and that is what they deserve.
Also, what kind of Saab do you race?
Peace,
Dave
Your statement about limiting the dB is accurate, somewhat. The difference being that you can only get so much power out of an amplifier, but if you want that power to be clean, i.e. no clipping, it requires proper level matching between the preamp and the power amp. I would suggest turning the input level on the power amp down all the way, turn the preamp up to around 3 to 4 o'clock, then start bringing the level control on the power amp up until it starts to clip. Once you have hit that point, turn the level control back a little so you avoid clipping. This will give you the maximum clean output for the power amp.
Now if you really want to test the bass output capabilities of this setup, get some bass heavy rap (yechh), or something like the 1812 overture (BUUUWWWWAAAHHHHHAAAAA!!) If you don't knock down pictures, crack walls and scare neighbors, then there is a problem. It could be something with the power amp, or the enclosure design limits the maximum capabilities of the power amp and speaker.
Keep in mind to make sure that the cable going from the NAD to the input on the Behringer is wired correctly for the application.
It's nice to know that you and your wife are healing. I read your post about Rajah, it's never fun to lose a friend. Sometimes the furry ones are easier to deal with than the human ones. I'm also glad you brought another animal into your home. You sound like people who really care about your animals, and that is what they deserve.
Also, what kind of Saab do you race?
Peace,
Dave
I have the amp in stereo mode. I have two of the dayton drivers but I'll have to buld proper boxes for them. I am just wanting the 650 watts per driver. The low cut filter is off. I believe you are right about the linear travel of the woofer, it is in a cabinet that is not made for it and I am probably listening to 40-50 hz notes. I guess I am expecting too much, I'll have to see what it does after I make the proper cabinets.
I will try that with the volume on my preamp as soon as I get one.
It was sa d to see Rajah go, but now we have Abby in a now kitten safe house(as far as I know). I used to have '93 9000 CSE, my favorite car I have ever owened. I never really raced it but it was very quick, never should have sold it. Oh well. The name has stuck with me ever since.
Dan
I will try that with the volume on my preamp as soon as I get one.
It was sa d to see Rajah go, but now we have Abby in a now kitten safe house(as far as I know). I used to have '93 9000 CSE, my favorite car I have ever owened. I never really raced it but it was very quick, never should have sold it. Oh well. The name has stuck with me ever since.
Dan
Even if you don't have the woofers in proper cabinets, if you were using the NAD preamp section to driver the Behringer, you should have been able to cause some pretty serious bass notes, like to the point the house should have been shaking. If you really want some deep bass, build a transmission line enclosure for each driver, if tuned properly, it should cause loose drywall to fall off! And if you have a lot of room, build a horn for the bass drivers. That might just cause some damage to internal organs if turned up too loud.
I have owned three SAABs over the years. I had a '72 99 in high school, that car wasn't the fastest, but it handled great. Had a '85 900 in college. 8 valve, 4 door, so it wasn't the fastest either, but again, good handling and comfy. A few years back I had a '85 900 16v turbo with a non functioning waste gate. Because of the waste gate not opening, it blew the seals on the turbo and burned about a quart of oil a week, but it went like stink. I think instead of 4-5lbs of boost it was probably somewhere closer to 15-20lbs of boost. That car would spin the tires almost through second gear. If you slammed the throttle and dumped the clutch, you went from 1st to 3rd very quickly. I couldn't really keep up with the shifting properly. It's a shame that it finally needed too much work to bother fixing it.
Good luck with Abby, cats are cool.
Too really test the bass power, get something like the 1812 overture on CD. BBC does good recordings, others have said good things about Telarc, but I'm not that knowledgeable about which companies are the best. When the cannons go off, that will put the test to your system!
Peace,
Dave
I have owned three SAABs over the years. I had a '72 99 in high school, that car wasn't the fastest, but it handled great. Had a '85 900 in college. 8 valve, 4 door, so it wasn't the fastest either, but again, good handling and comfy. A few years back I had a '85 900 16v turbo with a non functioning waste gate. Because of the waste gate not opening, it blew the seals on the turbo and burned about a quart of oil a week, but it went like stink. I think instead of 4-5lbs of boost it was probably somewhere closer to 15-20lbs of boost. That car would spin the tires almost through second gear. If you slammed the throttle and dumped the clutch, you went from 1st to 3rd very quickly. I couldn't really keep up with the shifting properly. It's a shame that it finally needed too much work to bother fixing it.
Good luck with Abby, cats are cool.
Too really test the bass power, get something like the 1812 overture on CD. BBC does good recordings, others have said good things about Telarc, but I'm not that knowledgeable about which companies are the best. When the cannons go off, that will put the test to your system!
Peace,
Dave
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