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-   -   unbalanced/balanced/unbalanced conversion using transformers (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/11723-unbalanced-balanced-unbalanced-conversion-using-transformers.html)

vladimir 27th February 2003 11:48 AM

unbalanced/balanced/unbalanced conversion using transformers
 
Hello,

I own one preamp and two power amps. I have a long run of IC between, so I decided to use ballanced connection.

Power amp and preamp both have unbalanced input/output.

I possess a pair of Stevens & Billington LO410 output transformers and pair of Stevens & Billington TX101 input transformers.

Could someone help me how to connect/build the bridge: preamp unballanced output ->transformer->ballanced long connection->transformer->unbalanced input of power amp using those 4 trannies ?

TIA,
vladimir.

mrfeedback 27th February 2003 02:14 PM

Steve Eddy is the audio transformer expert around here.
Steve ?.

Eric.

jam 27th February 2003 02:23 PM

Valdamir,

Go to http://www.jensen-transformers.com/apps_wp.html

Eric,

I thought he was the vibration expert.......;)

Jam

Steve Eddy 27th February 2003 03:02 PM

Re: unbalanced/balanced/unbalanced conversion using transformers
 
Quote:

Originally posted by vladimir
I own one preamp and two power amps. I have a long run of IC between, so I decided to use ballanced connection.

Power amp and preamp both have unbalanced input/output.

I possess a pair of Stevens & Billington LO410 output transformers and pair of Stevens & Billington TX101 input transformers.

Could someone help me how to connect/build the bridge: preamp unballanced output ->transformer->ballanced long connection->transformer->unbalanced input of power amp using those 4 trannies ?

S&B offer next to no useful information about either of those transformers so there's not much I can offer regarding those specific devices.

However I like to keep things simple so here's what I do.

I don't bother converting unbalanced outputs to balanced outputs. Instead, I just use a Jensen JT-11P-1 input transformer at my amplifier's input.

The reason for this is that the JT-11P-1 will give you 100dB of common-mode noise rejection even from an unbalanced source. In fact, it only gives about 7dB more if it's fed from a balanced source. And I haven't found that 7dB to make any difference at all in the end.

So if the TX-101 has similar performance to the JT-11P-1, I'd recommend returning the output transformers and just install the 101s as close as possible to the inputs of your amps. Ideally build them into the chassis if you can.

Good luck!

se

Steve Eddy 27th February 2003 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jam
I thought he was the vibration expert.......;)
That's funny, I thought YOU were the vibration expert.

Oh, that's right. You're the vibratOR expert. :)

se

mrfeedback 27th February 2003 03:13 PM

The Truth, But Not The Whole Truth.
 
Hi Vladimir,
You also need to ensure that the secondaries are loaded correctly, or else you will get a non-flat frequency response.

Care to elaborate Steve ?.

Eric.

jam 27th February 2003 03:18 PM

Steve,

You must work for Coda?

By the way what do you recommend for an output transformer, and have you tried Balsa wood to control vibrations?

Regards,

Jam

mrfeedback 27th February 2003 03:19 PM

Toxic Vibrations.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jam
Eric,
I thought he was the vibration expert.......;)
Jam

Yeah, he might be, but I think of him as the listening to nickel expert - irritating stuff really, especially long term.

Eric.

Steve Eddy 27th February 2003 04:22 PM

Re: The Truth, But Not The Whole Truth.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mrfeedback
Hi Vladimir,
You also need to ensure that the secondaries are loaded correctly, or else you will get a non-flat frequency response.

Care to elaborate Steve ?.

Well there's not much to elaborate on given that S&B don't offer much useful information about their transformers.

But yes, to avoid high frequency resonant peaks, you need to make sure that the transformer is properly loaded. For example, the JT-11P-1 is ideally loaded by 10k ohms.

If you're using output transformers, you also have to concern yourself with source capacitance.

Output transformers typically have significantly lower primary inductance than input transformers. So if the output stage feeding it is capacitively coupled, you need to make sure you have enough capacitance to avoid low frequency resonances (caused by the output capacitor and the primary inductance of the transformer).

For most output transformers, the few microfarads of output coupling capacitance that is typical isn't high enough. You usually need to have at least several hundred microfarads of coupling capacitance. This pretty much forces you to use electrolytics and is another reason to not bother with output transformers and stick to input transformers only.

se

Steve Eddy 27th February 2003 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jam
You must work for Coda?
Yeah. Though what made it obvious? :)

Quote:

By the way what do you recommend for an output transformer, and have you tried Balsa wood to control vibrations?
The JT-11-DMCF is a good output transformer as far as output transformers go. But still I prefer to use just an input transformer on its own. Also see my comments above regarding output transformers and low frequency resonances.

As for balsa wood, I played with it a bit quite a few years ago but it didn't seem to work well and the stuff just falls apart too easily.

For metal chassis, the best stuff I've used are the various products from E*A*R. For wood, I prefer natural cork (as opposed to the cork/rubber blends).

se


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