Highest quality design

[D_o_S]

Hi,

I am relatively new to audio and everything, and since I got new speakers, I've decided that a new amp would be nice as well... I would like to go for a separate pre-amp, and seperate power amps for each channel (left/right)

I would like to build a pre-amp and amp myself.

I have electronic engineering skills (at least my dad does).

My first and foremost question is: can I build an amplifier of comparable quality to McIntosh/Classe/ other high-end audio brand?

And if the answer to the first question is yes, then which design would you recommend?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nico Ras]

Hi,

I am relatively new to audio and everything, and since I got new speakers, I've decided that a new amp would be nice as well... I would like to go for a separate pre-amp, and seperate power amps for each channel (left/right)

I would like to build a pre-amp and amp myself.

I have electronic engineering skills (at least my dad does).

My first and foremost question is: can I build an amplifier of comparable quality to McIntosh/Classe/ other high-end audio brand?

And if the answer to the first question is yes, then which design would you recommend?

Thanks in advance.

The answer to your first question is, without a doubt. The second question is much harder to answer, this is what you have to decide, what would suit your needs. There are many very excellent designs available by some of the members of this forum, some members have their web sites with designs that they offer. Have a look at http://users.tpg.com.au/users/gerskine/dxamp/ also visit Rod Elliots web http://sound.westhost.com/projects.htm then there is Nick Whetstone's place that could get you started http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/nuukspot/decdun/gaincloneindex.html and look at Quasi's pages http://www.adam.com.au/cgpap/QuasiWeb/index.htm, there are too many to name, so sorry guys if I left you out.

 

[D_o_S]

Thank you for your reply.

Please, give me some more suggestions on recommended projects/schematics... I do not have the skill to go and design something myself, yet I am fairly certain I could build something that requires a lot of skill by following a plan (with the help of my dad ofc), so don't worry and suggest complicated projects off the bat.

My motto is "do it once, do it right", and I plan to do the same here Then on the other hand "I'll try anything once... twice if I like it"

 

[Nico Ras]

Thank you for your reply.

Please, give me some more suggestions on recommended projects/schematics... I do not have the skill to go and design something myself, yet I am fairly certain I could build something that requires a lot of skill by following a plan (with the help of my dad ofc), so don't worry and suggest complicated projects off the bat.

My motto is "do it once, do it right", and I plan to do the same here Then on the other hand "I'll try anything once... twice if I like it"

Those web-sites actually offers complete designs and building instructions, some are very well described and informative, especially NUUKs web. What are your requirements, big small, discreet, chip, tubes?

 

[CBS240]

Thank you for your reply.


My motto is "do it once, do it right", and I plan to do the same here Then on the other hand "I'll try anything once... twice if I like it"

If you plan to use someone else’s 'kit', then doing it successfully once is very important. After all, isn't that what your paying for? As for me, I decided early that I wanted to make a superb quality amp from my own design, completely out of discrete parts, from scratch. Thus I have built quite a few revisions, and with each one, learning how to make it better. I am finally near the goals I set out for. The circuit works right, but the PCB will take some time to work out. For sure, it is much easier to build an amp rather than design a new circuit, but I just wanted to see if I could do it, for my own satisfaction.

 

[Nico Ras]

Thank you for your reply.

Please, give me some more suggestions on recommended projects/schematics... I do not have the skill to go and design something myself, yet I am fairly certain I could build something that requires a lot of skill by following a plan (with the help of my dad ofc), so don't worry and suggest complicated projects off the bat.

My motto is "do it once, do it right", and I plan to do the same here Then on the other hand "I'll try anything once... twice if I like it"

Why not build the KRELL KSA50 Clone, it is not complicated, probably been built by several thousand enthusiasts.

It is a proven commercial design originally by Dan Augustino CEO of KRELL.

It works very well, some will swear it is the best since sliced bread, and you can bias it in class AB, lift the supply voltage to 55V and push > 170 watt if the heat generated by the original 50 watt class A scares you.

Have a look at Jan's site http://delta-audio.com/Krell-Clone.htm Jan has put in extreme effort for the DIY community building this amp earlier last year.

Kind regards

Nico

 

[D_o_S]

I am interested in building an amp that will give around 150 to 200W @ 4 ohms.

I want it to be standard-size "audio unit" form factor, it can be as high as necessary.

I would like to get clear, dynamic sound. I need it to be 2 channel, plus I need a channel for my subwoofer, but maybe I could build a dedicated amp for that?

Also, I'm not quite sure what a chip-amp is? I think audio uses either solid state or tube amps, or can you show me some commercial chip amps?

 

[Nico Ras]

... can you show me some commercial chip amps?

http://www.sakurasystems.com/intro.html

 

[Nico Ras]

I am interested in building an amp that will give around 150 to 200W @ 4 ohms.

Krell clone run from 50V rails biased in class AB (about 36 mA) will give you > 350 watt @ 4 Ohms

 

[D_o_S]

Ok, I would like something that is class A...

I was also thinking about some of the amps Upupa Epops had, the DA 386, or so (I don't know the name exactly), is that any good? Can anyone get me a schematic?

Also, what about the Simple Killer Amplifier by Greg Ball? As here: http://www.ska-audio.com/diy/003.html

Is that any good? I would need 2 kits ofc, but it looks like a nice way to start perhaps?

I showed my dad the Krell clone, he doesn't seem to impressed by it, he sort of couldn't figure out how it was working, saying it was some "old configuration" or so

Can anyone else point me to anything nice?

 

[Nico Ras]

Ok, I would like something that is class A...

I was also thinking about some of the amps Upupa Epops had, the DA 386, or so (I don't know the name exactly), is that any good? Can anyone get me a schematic?

Also, what about the Simple Killer Amplifier by Greg Ball? As here: http://www.ska-audio.com/diy/003.html

Is that any good? I would need 2 kits ofc, but it looks like a nice way to start perhaps?

I showed my dad the Krell clone, he doesn't seem to impressed by it, he sort of couldn't figure out how it was working, saying it was some "old configuration" or so

Can anyone else point me to anything nice?

Why don't you ask your dad what you should build?

 

[culture]

well, a year ago i had the same problem.. new speakers...no new amp..

i build myself a aleph p1.7 and a f4. just 25w 8ohm/50 watt 4ohm, more than enough for me. build yourself two f4s and you have 100 watt balanced.

now i want new speakers

to find out more about look into the pass forum. read it first and than ask your dad

btw, pumpkin pre is supposed to be very good with the f4 (designed for...) recommended by nelson pass himself (somewhere in some thread as far as is remember)

6moons has a nice extensive review about the commercial f4 amps

cheers,

C

 

[AKSA]

A simple amp design can be had at no charge from Doug Self's website.

However, it is not particularly refined by high end standards, and for that you must spend lots of time tweaking component values and choices until you get it voiced just right. CBS240 makes this very point; if you are a perfectionist, this quest will take years, particularly if you do it as a hobby.

Once completed, the schematic must be laid out as a pcb. When I started out with the AKSA, the combination of learning the layout program and refining the board took around 650 hours at the keyboard!

This is what you pay for when you buy a professional, commercial product. All this time costs; none of us like working for nothing. What you seek, the ultimate amp well refined, either costs money or time; you can't get away from it.

Choosing the 'best' amp is difficult; they are all different, but opinions vary on what is best, and in this sense audio is like food - a huge diversity, and all of it with a share of the market. Contrary to popular belief, the amp makes a huge difference to the sound; it's not all the speaker. Think about that, and try to reconcile it with the published specifications you see in the glossy brochures.

Cheers,

Hugh

 

[pinkmouse]

I showed my dad the Krell clone, he doesn't seem to impressed by it, he sort of couldn't figure out how it was working, saying it was some "old configuration" or so

It may be old, but it's a very good amp, and still beats the pants off many "modern" designs.

Still, if you want Class A, and don't like the Krells, do some reading in the Pass Labs forum, though your Dad may dislike them even more...

 

[Cloth Ears]

Choosing the 'best' amp is difficult; they are all different, but opinions vary on what is best, and in this sense audio is like food - a huge diversity, and all of it with a share of the market.

Succinctly put. I must use the food analogy and possibly expand on it (eg. class 'G' - like high protein, high energy bars, they work but you wouldn't want them every day )

Contrary to popular belief, the amp makes a huge difference to the sound; it's not all the speaker. Think about that, and try to reconcile it with the published specifications you see in the glossy brochures.

Hugh, I'm still (naively?) hoping that with well-designed amps that they don't actually affect the sound themselves. But that they do affect what the speaker does (or is able to do) with the sound.
And apologies for the slight thread hijack...

D_o_S, what are you intending to use the amp for? It's OK to want a 200w/ch class 'A' amplifier, but what are you intending to drive with this beast (ie. what are your speakers?). Also, Hugh is probably too shy to mentioned it, but his later AKSA kit amplifiers (which might still be available) are pretty good...if you're not going to design your own. And, there's some pretty interesting designs floating around on the Pass forum on this site - with Nelson occasionally available for advice (amongst others).

 

[KLe]

Hi D_o_S

You should definitely add this one to your list ... http://www.ska-audio.com/diy/

 

[CBS240]

if you are a perfectionist, this quest will take years, particularly if you do it as a hobby.

Once completed, the schematic must be laid out as a pcb. When I started out with the AKSA, the combination of learning the layout program and refining the board took around 650 hours at the keyboard!

Only 650 hours? That's all? I've been changing/refining my "ultimate amp" design for a couple of years now, with different topologies, but also learning invaluble knowledge in audio design, which is actually the main goal. Finally I'm now to the PCB layout and expect to spend many more hours yet. Time is slow since I'm only a hobbiest in this field, and must earn elsewhere.....

 

[AKSA]

Jont,

When you put two amps side by side into the same system and switch between them, you find quite astonishing differences between them. At the highest levels of performance, these differences come down to presentation; that is, where the vocals are placed, the width of the sound stage, the impact of the percussion, the fine detail of hihats and 2nd violin/wind sections, the depth of the image, the decay of pianos, the fullness of a hall of clapping people. These are the big ones, and they come back to the amp as much as the speakers.

In fact, with a good amp and lousy speakers, you can still hear the potential of the amp, no question. The reverse is not true at all; a bad amp and good speakers will sound very ordinary.

Yes, I have quite a range of amps, and they are all very good. But the forum is not to sell, I have a website for that, it is to exchange ideas, and I have a problem with people touting particlar designs - it's like a broken record.

CBS240, yes, only 650 hours! I'm sorry, I work quickly, it took about two years...... email me if you'd like a photo!

Cheers,

Hugh

 

[KLe]

Hi CBS240

Why don't you try a Dr Bora design ... http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65175

Have a look at the thread.
There are quite a few designs ... and Carlos is speaking highly of them.
So, they must be as good as some or even all of the designs that have been mentioned

ciao

 

[CBS240]

CBS240, yes, only 650 hours! I'm sorry, I work quickly, it took about two years...... email me if you'd like a photo!

Cheers,

Hugh

Hi Hugh, photos are always a great bit. ...e-mail is blocked from forum.

KLE

Dr Bora does interesting designs for sure, but I undertook the quest of starting from the begining. I've come this far, might as well finish. The PCB in work is for this amp. It works increadibly well constructed on cheap vero board, it should work with a properly designed and built PCB...the current challenge is to not make any mistakes!! ...may take months to optimize.



almost forgot...

HAPPY NEW YEAR to all!!!!!!!!