Yes and a little of no.
IMHO it is just mis interpreted datasheet wich give a typical and general appilications and supose that the readers is knowledgable of electronic.
So thopse issue are not to be affraid of.
Especially the power suplie. Those capacitor are dwcoupling cap and not really the power wich will contain more capacitance.
etc etc...
///edit///
Also it was aimed for large scale oem manufacturer who want the cheapest solution. Us diy audio freak will modify it to taqilor our demand and specifications.
///edit///
IMHO it is just mis interpreted datasheet wich give a typical and general appilications and supose that the readers is knowledgable of electronic.
So thopse issue are not to be affraid of.
Especially the power suplie. Those capacitor are dwcoupling cap and not really the power wich will contain more capacitance.
etc etc...
///edit///
Also it was aimed for large scale oem manufacturer who want the cheapest solution. Us diy audio freak will modify it to taqilor our demand and specifications.
///edit///
Check this post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=130756#post130756
I also believe that some sonic properies of gainclone are due to small capacitance of PS. I've buit them with only 2000u per channel and wouldn't change anything. The bass is better than some other designs featuring countles kilos of capacitance.
I also believe that some sonic properies of gainclone are due to small capacitance of PS. I've buit them with only 2000u per channel and wouldn't change anything. The bass is better than some other designs featuring countles kilos of capacitance.
About supply caps
(Some amps are more demanding. No rule without exception.)
In that way I am no different from Rod Elliot.
He does not advocate use of excessive, unnessesary PSU capacitors.
But then his amplifier projects do not need them.
His designs are based on evaluation done with instruments.
----------------------
I would rather prefer several low impedance caps of moderate size, than big "slow" Eletrolytes.
There are caps of low impedance for good prices from the far eastern land.
Especially when we come closer to the working Semiconductors
in the amp, I would want smaller low impedance caps.
Parallelled if necessary.
/halo
I am normally not so considered about Enormous Cap Banks in PSU.Peter Daniel said:I would rather say, yes a bit, and no in large extend.
As to capacitance issues in PS, it is my opinion, that less is better.
(Some amps are more demanding. No rule without exception.)
In that way I am no different from Rod Elliot.
He does not advocate use of excessive, unnessesary PSU capacitors.
But then his amplifier projects do not need them.
His designs are based on evaluation done with instruments.
----------------------
I would rather prefer several low impedance caps of moderate size, than big "slow" Eletrolytes.
There are caps of low impedance for good prices from the far eastern land.
Especially when we come closer to the working Semiconductors
in the amp, I would want smaller low impedance caps.
Parallelled if necessary.
/halo
This page has shown up in discussion before. Right off the bat he loses all credibitlity when he says a quasi-complementary amp is unsuitable for hifi ... he has obviously never heard a NAIM amp.
There is almost an automatic knee-jerk reaction that a chipAmp can't be as good as gain-clones show they can be.
The 1st time i ran across smaller capacitance sounds better was with Hugh Dean's AKSA. It is easy to see how this could be -- eith more capacitance, you get a shorter charging period and that pushes the frequency of the hammering any cap-input supply takes up in frequency where it can be more bothersome. The small caps with the high PSRR of the chipAmps gives a situation where small is good.
dave
There is almost an automatic knee-jerk reaction that a chipAmp can't be as good as gain-clones show they can be.
JBL said:This is against the main flow in this forum who kind of like Farads and farads of capacitance.
The 1st time i ran across smaller capacitance sounds better was with Hugh Dean's AKSA. It is easy to see how this could be -- eith more capacitance, you get a shorter charging period and that pushes the frequency of the hammering any cap-input supply takes up in frequency where it can be more bothersome. The small caps with the high PSRR of the chipAmps gives a situation where small is good.
dave
Perhaps then the best solution is a huge capacitor bank with good input filtering before the bank to limit the bandwidth of the charging circuitry for the caps...... which I personally find the most sonically pleasing, but that is just me.
With Gainclones, there is lots of feedback at lower frequencies which gives good power supply rejection so larger capacitances are not as much benefit. However good capacitors such that higher frequencies can be handled is essential.
Alvaius
With Gainclones, there is lots of feedback at lower frequencies which gives good power supply rejection so larger capacitances are not as much benefit. However good capacitors such that higher frequencies can be handled is essential.
Alvaius
Peter Daniel said:
That could be due to the added distortion due to clipping because of the small caps being drawn down. Psychoacoustically, if you're presented with the harmonics of a bass tone without the actual bass tone, the brain tends to fill in the bass tone itself.
In fact, that's how the brain acts to a large degree when listening to music. It acts as an interpreter and interpolator. It has to seeing as our ears actually strip out quite a lot of information before anything's ever sent to the brain.
se
Yes, but where to find a pure DC-source?Steve Eddy said:Personally I think the best solution is to simply ditch the AC power supply in the first place and go with a pure DC source. So instead of 1,000 uF, how 'bout 0 uF?
se
With a suitable voltage.
And with most batteries you would have
to exclude Class A operation, to make the current last
for more than a day.
Class A amps also benefit from allowing to warm up,
or contunious long time running.
I have 2 Car Batteries 12 volts here in my room (65Ah, Ampere hours)
this gives me a supply of 2x12 volts.
I bought them specially for use in amplifiers.
Big Truck batts, 24 volts would perhaps be good enough?
2x24V is good choice for a Class A amp.
/halo
With respect to what?
The sound quaity of the IC or the PS layout? Since quite a bit was posted about the PS and filter caps, I'll just comment on the IC.
No, it is not high-end sound. But if I just want a cheap quick HT only (i.e. no for music) system using small cube sats and a sub, I would give serious consideration to filling a box with the kits from Marchand (www.marchandelec.com) either in single or bridged mode. Better than anything you will find at Circuit City
The sound quaity of the IC or the PS layout? Since quite a bit was posted about the PS and filter caps, I'll just comment on the IC.
No, it is not high-end sound. But if I just want a cheap quick HT only (i.e. no for music) system using small cube sats and a sub, I would give serious consideration to filling a box with the kits from Marchand (www.marchandelec.com) either in single or bridged mode. Better than anything you will find at Circuit City
halojoy said:
You can always use an AC supply to keep your amps warmed up if you want. Just switch to batteries when you're listening.
Certainly batteries aren't practial for everyone in every situation. But there are many situations where they can work quite well.
I just think it's a bit silly to go through all the rigamarole to hammer an AC waveform into a DC power source if you can get by with straight DC.
Even sillier, someone on another board was talking about using power inverters to produce AC from batteries. Start out with a perfectly good DC source, convert it to AC, and then hammer it back into DC. Yikes!
That works well if you don't need much in the way of power.
Or back to the 2 x 12 if you're more into high efficiency loudspeakers.
se
Shaving Cream
Steve Eddy:
Even sillier, someone on another board was talking about using power inverters to produce AC from batteries. Start out with a perfectly good DC source, convert it to AC, and then hammer it back into DC. Yikes!
*******************************************************************
hehe, many ideas around
some have to be a little silly - I have probably contributed some of them
-------------------------
But for your electrical shaver
when you are on holiday trip with your car
it can be a good idea.
Making AC mains out of DC.
And the shaving machine hopefully will have a good sound.
To please your golden ears.
/halo - shaves not too often - why bother?
- when it only grows back again
Steve Eddy:
Even sillier, someone on another board was talking about using power inverters to produce AC from batteries. Start out with a perfectly good DC source, convert it to AC, and then hammer it back into DC. Yikes!
*******************************************************************
hehe, many ideas around
some have to be a little silly - I have probably contributed some of them
-------------------------
But for your electrical shaver
when you are on holiday trip with your car
it can be a good idea.
Making AC mains out of DC.
And the shaving machine hopefully will have a good sound.
To please your golden ears.
/halo - shaves not too often - why bother?
- when it only grows back again
Re: Shaving Cream
I suspect so. Been there, done that myself.
Hahaha! Yeah, 'cept now you've got to deal with alternator whine!
Hehehe. That's rather how I look at making beds. Why bother? I'm just going to mess it up again tonight.
se
halojoy said:hehe, many ideas around
some have to be a little silly - I have probably contributed some of them
I suspect so. Been there, done that myself.
But for your electrical shaver
when you are on holiday trip with your car
it can be a good idea.
Making AC mains out of DC.
And the shaving machine hopefully will have a good sound.
To please your golden ears.
Hahaha! Yeah, 'cept now you've got to deal with alternator whine!
/halo - shaves not too often - why bother?
- when it only grows back again
Hehehe. That's rather how I look at making beds. Why bother? I'm just going to mess it up again tonight.
se
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