NAP-140 Clone Amp Kit on Ebay - Page 96 - diyAudio
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Old 27th September 2012, 10:15 AM   #951
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Does that mean you believe the left sch is better?
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Originally Posted by harwoodspark View Post
I'm not too good at reading circuit diagrams so I wouldn't know the difference and tbh I wouldn't want to look at a circuit diagram to decide how something sounds.
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I've built three pairs of these 140 clones and a pair of NCC200s which are now up to Voyager spec. The clones don't come anywhere near a bog standard NCC200
are you saying that the left sch is better?
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Old 27th September 2012, 10:21 AM   #952
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I'm sorry but you've lost me there Andrew
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Old 27th September 2012, 12:23 PM   #953
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Has anyone tried the Naim clones in LT Spice ?
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Old 27th September 2012, 05:46 PM   #954
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If you can afford genuine parts why would you want to build a clone? Go straight to Les at Avondale and buy his NCC200 boards and build the real deal.
Last I looked, only modules @ over 200GBP ea. were available over the net from Avondale. Currently there are no prices other than 100GBP mains power leads visible so obviously, Les isn't keen on foreign business. A pair of Clone PCBS is around 13 GBP + post and the parts about 70GBP, depending of course, on what your choices were. That's a huge price difference. Anyways, its just not viable to DIY with modules at those prices and I see many guys modding their Ebay clones to avoid them. I don't know what extras and parts you guys in the UK can get from Avondale but someone correct me if I'm wrong in saying they aren't generally available to overseas purchasers.

The real deal I referred to is Naim, not Avondale sound - they are different tunings and have different results from different speed devices and tweaks. Some prefer one or the other but when correct devices are used in a clone and the actual schematic tweaks applied, you have acceptable sound for very little cash. Otherwise, you still have a simple and cheap, working, class AB amplifier. That is the real point of Ebay clones and the general direction of this thread.

Most builders will eventually realise that the generic schematic of a NAP250 that circulates with Ebay clones and is posted a few times in this thread, fits no particular model. Some have indeed built the clones and denounced them as awful sounding and the reasons are quite obvious, basic and discussed over and over. However, if you have the cash for quality, tested finished product and designs with pretensions to more genuine hi-end quality sound, you probably don't want the bother of tinkering with such problems at the board level with unknown parts anyway, so I can understand the decision to go with a proven DIY product and design and parts from a respected local source, if available. The NCC product certainly has enthusiastic support from all those dedicated Naim-modder forums. Amazing!
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Old 27th September 2012, 06:48 PM   #955
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I wish someone would make this as a kit . Profussion UK have similar parts .

A Paul Kemble web page - Hitachi Fet designs.
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Old 27th September 2012, 06:55 PM   #956
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Originally Posted by harwoodspark View Post
The clones don't come anywhere near a bog standard NCC200 and the Voyager spec is just miles in front.
Hello
All do I didn't purchased the Avondale kit I only use their schematic.
I do not want to pay for parts I know I will not use them.
To me the flat pack transistor sound better than the TO3. (These my opinion we can argue over these I did some test)
And that MJL power transistor (sounded the best to me) these type only avaleble in flat package.
Also I did tested the tantalum capacitors both wet (military type) and the type they use, I'd like to stay with the Silmic.
I can write yes I agree with you, the sound quality between the Naim 140 clone (Ebay or not) and the NCC200 is huge.
I have nothing to do with Avondale!!!!!
I started I did purchased a set from Tubeshunter from Ebay which used good parts (all orig transistors at least 4 years a go).
It used Tip driver transistors and Sanken (not the large case but orig Sanken) power transistors.
At the beginning I did like so much I ordered one more set. I started to change parts on it, like using ON semi MJ11034/35 drivers and MJL power transistors.
Dale & PRP resistors.
On the input I use BG non polar 10Uf (the best), and ZTX better than BD which came with the orig clone.
All the rest capacitor on the board are Elna Silmic 100Uf. Yes I did tried many different type like Philips, Nippon CC, etc.
To me Silmic is the best........
Another think the Ebay kit has a built in protection (that do degrade the sound very badly)
I took it out, and who-la the sound opened up, much cleaner, better bass and more increase dynamic.
Al do these caused a little problem when I turned of the amp and the voltage drop around 7-8V the power transistor open up and let the DC out to the speaker coil. I need to use speaker protection.
So on the end I realised almost I can't use nothing from the Ebay clone I sell them both after I made my own PC boards.
The last PC board was designed I can include the Greg modification to, that is not on the layout I'll post.
I didn't tested yet but at the Greg's forum someone tested step by step how Greg told him and improved the orig Avondale NCC200 kit.That is how they came up with these schematic.
Later I want to test that to, if is true probably I can improve further the sound. All do right now what I achieved I'm more than satisfied with!
I will post my lay out but because I did draw with the paint program I do not have parts list (silk screen) I use color code.
If you interested I post the list of the transistors I use now. I'm happy if I can help.There is no secret from my side.
Also I will make a picture from the old stuffed PC board and will posted so you can see it.
Greetings Gabor
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File Type: jpg NAP-135 BC546B Mod.JPG (43.4 KB, 352 views)
File Type: jpg include GB mode......JPG (88.4 KB, 347 views)

Last edited by gaborbela; 27th September 2012 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 27th September 2012, 07:13 PM   #957
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It's not that long ago since I bought some bare NCC boards from Les. Maybe he's giving up on the diy side. I did hear a whisper that he might be running down as he's well past the usual retirement age. There's always the HackerNap to try I suppose. Plenty of info over on the Pink Fish.

As for the clones I thought they sounded ok. I still have one pair built into an old Cambridge Audio P500 case using part of that psu ( I simply hacked it out of the old pcb) and the transformer. It's still in use and works fine but it's nothing to write home about. I did replace all the cheap caps though but nothing else. I found the bias hard to keep steady too and in the end I bought a pair of Avondale boards and that was that.
Personally I don't think the Avondale sound is that far removed from the Naim sound. Just enough that it doesn't irritate, maybe not so sharp but it's still very clean sounding just like the Naim. The clones don't sound much like Naim at all tbh. Thin and wiry might be the only two words of similarity
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Old 27th September 2012, 07:20 PM   #958
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Hello
I would live to give a try to these amp
I have orig Hitachi 2SK1058 & 2SJ162 also I have 2SJ77 & 2SK214 but for the input I do not have the J Fet.
Just 2SK170/2SJ74 or 2SK246/2SJ103.
To design the layout a bit to complex to me with the pait program, I do not use bread board not even for testing.

Greetings Gabor
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Old 27th September 2012, 08:00 PM   #959
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I think this needs a new thread. "JLH Mosfet Design" or something like that
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Old 28th September 2012, 07:50 AM   #960
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Hi Ian and everyone , very nice to be back . I put in the Hitachi design as it seems to be easy to get right and almost is hi end ( almost read as is , Goldmund if I am right used it ) . Paul Kemble has found the all FET version and shows how it is slightly less good . I suspect a J FET input ( cascode ) would be interesting .

From the comments made here is seems it would be well liked . Exicon FET's seem slightly superior ( 10N16 10P16 ) . It can even have a Naim output stage in place of FET's .

I have built a JLH FET of my own design . I never finished it ( i.e. made it tidy ) . I would be happy to show it . To be honest the Hitachi is better . My JLH clone is 4 transistors , 8 watts class A , plenty of AB watts above 8 . It has DC offset compatible with DC coupling and unusual feedback from output to VAS . Distortion below - 60 dB @ 60 kHz .
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