Dear All,
Would someone be so kind to recommend "building guide" or at least schematics for the 50 to 80 W high end AB Class amplifier.
Why not straight A class?
I would not like to invest into 3 or 4 KW power supply for straight A class amp. in order to achieve high quality 50 W amp.
So, the best possible but I would stick to AB class, bipolar or FET.
AMP would be used with modified CD player, sometimes with high end tube preamp sometimes with OPAMP premplifier...
I do prefer Jazz music, room is small, speakers are Wharfedale mid class, but will be exchanged for something better soon...
And... Amp will be built by high experienced friend... not by me.
Would someone be so kind to recommend "building guide" or at least schematics for the 50 to 80 W high end AB Class amplifier.
Why not straight A class?
I would not like to invest into 3 or 4 KW power supply for straight A class amp. in order to achieve high quality 50 W amp.
So, the best possible but I would stick to AB class, bipolar or FET.
AMP would be used with modified CD player, sometimes with high end tube preamp sometimes with OPAMP premplifier...
I do prefer Jazz music, room is small, speakers are Wharfedale mid class, but will be exchanged for something better soon...
And... Amp will be built by high experienced friend... not by me.
50W High End
Try this link(http://www.geocities.com/d_zeman/audio.html)
They sound pretty good.
Cheers.
Try this link(http://www.geocities.com/d_zeman/audio.html)
They sound pretty good.
Cheers.
The Zeman amp is basically a Leach.
Why not build the real thing?
Original, simplest version:
http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/papers/lowtim/feb76feb77articles.pdf
Improved, current version (only one pair of outputs needed for 80W):
http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/lowtim/
Why not build the real thing?
Original, simplest version:
http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/papers/lowtim/feb76feb77articles.pdf
Improved, current version (only one pair of outputs needed for 80W):
http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~mleach/lowtim/
Lots of good ones to choose from (beside Leach, already mentioned):
AKSA/Soraya http://www.aksaonline.com/products_2.html (kit)
Quasi http://www.adam.com.au/cgpap/QuasiWeb/index.htm
SymAsym http://www.lf-pro.net/mbittner/Sym5_Webpage/symasym5_3.html
Graham Maynard's GEM http://www.gmweb2.net./
ESP/P3A http://sound.westhost.com/project3a.htm
probably many others.
..Todd
AKSA/Soraya http://www.aksaonline.com/products_2.html (kit)
Quasi http://www.adam.com.au/cgpap/QuasiWeb/index.htm
SymAsym http://www.lf-pro.net/mbittner/Sym5_Webpage/symasym5_3.html
Graham Maynard's GEM http://www.gmweb2.net./
ESP/P3A http://sound.westhost.com/project3a.htm
probably many others.
..Todd
Destroyer X's HRII amp.
Complete construction files can be found here.
http://www.dxamp.com/construction/
Complete construction files can be found here.
http://www.dxamp.com/construction/
Hi velicko
Yes, also have a good look at the SKA GB300D ... http://www.ska-audio.com/diy/003.html
This is the one I use and I like it very much ...
ciao
Yes, also have a good look at the SKA GB300D ... http://www.ska-audio.com/diy/003.html
This is the one I use and I like it very much ...
ciao
Magura said:
500W sounded "normal" to me... Even 700...
While I was considering pure class A, a friend of mine, that will help me build any amp I choose, was stating that if I do want no compromise high end class A amp for 50 to 80 W power I should invest in minimum 2KW PS, up to 4 KW...
With constant power, and heating even more when there is no sound... I would not like it... spending energy.. heating room... too large...
That is why I would build something out of A class...
Thanx
velicko said:
For 500W per channel, you can get real class A. If you want to make things run off of less than 500W, you can go for pseudo class A. There are a number of solutions to that, one of the most elegant solutions to get "almost class A" without spending a lot of power (relatively speaking), is the Aleph series from Passlabs, or the AX series from the same house. When all is said and done, you get at least 30% efficiency from those amps, and can get higher if willing to do further tradeoff.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28336
If you decide to build such, get in touch with Steenoe, as we made an updated BOM for this thing that is somewhat less prone to get people into difficulties than the original BOM.
Magura
Nelson Pass article - Power Supplies: Commentary for Consumers
...
If the stereo amplifier is rated 200 watts per channel pure Class A, it will draw about 1000 watts all the time, meaning that about 3000 watts of power transformer is called for, no less.
...
I know that if I am ready for tradeoffs concerning sound quality, I could go for less power, but than it is questionable what I do really get...
Isn't it better to go to high quality AB than to build lower quality A class amp?
Sorry for such questions... I am really newbie in this field... I might be wrong...
...
If the stereo amplifier is rated 200 watts per channel pure Class A, it will draw about 1000 watts all the time, meaning that about 3000 watts of power transformer is called for, no less.
...
I know that if I am ready for tradeoffs concerning sound quality, I could go for less power, but than it is questionable what I do really get...
Isn't it better to go to high quality AB than to build lower quality A class amp?
Sorry for such questions... I am really newbie in this field... I might be wrong...
HiEnd amp - Stochino,
Hi Velicko,
Stochino's amp is worth considering - see Stochino thread.
With +/-57V PS (2x40V main transformer and 2x50V regulated PS transformer) it will give you about 150W RMS into 8 ohm. The amp is very fast - over 300V/us and has very low THD and intermodulation distortions.
Many people who listened to it consider it to be one of the best amps ever designed.
cheers,
Hi Velicko,
Stochino's amp is worth considering - see Stochino thread.
With +/-57V PS (2x40V main transformer and 2x50V regulated PS transformer) it will give you about 150W RMS into 8 ohm. The amp is very fast - over 300V/us and has very low THD and intermodulation distortions.
Many people who listened to it consider it to be one of the best amps ever designed.
cheers,
It's not exactly clear to me what the term Hi End stands for nowadays.
Based on what it meant up till 15 years ago, class AB power amplifiers such as the Halcros and a few others would fit the bill.
If you have no problem with designs that use Hawsford error correction, then you should take a look at the combined effort design of Mr Stuart and Mr Ovidiu.
Your friend would have to be a damn good assembler to succesfully construct it, but the two gentlemen delivered quite a piece of work and also hand a complete documentation of the design to the DIY community.
In monetary terms, a serial production specimen of that power amp design would be in the very expensive league.
The going rate of a comparable commercial item versus the DIY building costs makes it a design with the highest leverage, it also meets your shopping list.
(not trying to sell the design, but Mr Stuart and Mr Ovidiu deserve more credit for their accomplishment than has been shown so far, "quid pro quo" and all that bullocks)
Based on what it meant up till 15 years ago, class AB power amplifiers such as the Halcros and a few others would fit the bill.
If you have no problem with designs that use Hawsford error correction, then you should take a look at the combined effort design of Mr Stuart and Mr Ovidiu.
Your friend would have to be a damn good assembler to succesfully construct it, but the two gentlemen delivered quite a piece of work and also hand a complete documentation of the design to the DIY community.
In monetary terms, a serial production specimen of that power amp design would be in the very expensive league.
The going rate of a comparable commercial item versus the DIY building costs makes it a design with the highest leverage, it also meets your shopping list.
(not trying to sell the design, but Mr Stuart and Mr Ovidiu deserve more credit for their accomplishment than has been shown so far, "quid pro quo" and all that bullocks)
HiEnd???
Good question, Jacco.
I think it mostly means something like "pricing for the rich and snobs". Some stubborn people (including myself), however, believe it is associated with audio equipment aiming at faithful reproduction of sound. The latter is very difficult to achieve, a lot of hard work - sometimes rewarded with success and sometimes not. The former approach is much easier to implement.
Read recently Bob Cordell's (his 1980s amp looks really good) workshop paper published on his site about his surprise that most people could not tell the difference between to pretty different amps. No wonder. Most of the answer is imbeded in neurology of our brains. Best noticed when looking at those smart optical illusions. What we see is not there and what is there we cannot see at all.
When I was really young (a fresh graduate) I was involved with and initiated in a matter of fact a number of tests with musicians. Recordings versus live performance of vocals and a few classical instruments. Active amplification, everything descrete. I wrote about it here in relation to discussion on best op-amps or something like this.
In most cases speakers could be told apart, amplifiers sometimes while preamps were too far away in the chain to be picked up most of the time. Note that the panel consisted of mostly young (ears) professional musicians who have good "audio" memory. Ordinary folks trying to enjoy music at home, and especially those 35 plus, are rather hopeless in most cases if their perception was to be tested in such environment.
My experience tells me that the best most people can do is to go for the active system with best speakers one can get (ask a friend musician to help in choosing) , then use good amps with good Bessel fourth order crossovers and enjoy music with closed eyes. Pulling ones earlobes out improves soundstage beyond any audio equipment capabilities.
I do not think Valico is after Halcros (pocket heavy but certainly wort mentioning) or even Edmond-Ovidiu design. Great amps judging by presented evidence and you are quite right that they should be mentioned here.
Also one could try to follow Doglas Self's distortion reduction method presented in EW early this year I think and implemented by Cambridge Audio in their 840 apm.
It would be interesting to hear experience of others exposed to blind A-B-C tests of audio equipmet - or even more interesting reproduction equipment versus live.
cheers,
Good question, Jacco.
I think it mostly means something like "pricing for the rich and snobs". Some stubborn people (including myself), however, believe it is associated with audio equipment aiming at faithful reproduction of sound. The latter is very difficult to achieve, a lot of hard work - sometimes rewarded with success and sometimes not. The former approach is much easier to implement.
Read recently Bob Cordell's (his 1980s amp looks really good) workshop paper published on his site about his surprise that most people could not tell the difference between to pretty different amps. No wonder. Most of the answer is imbeded in neurology of our brains. Best noticed when looking at those smart optical illusions. What we see is not there and what is there we cannot see at all.
When I was really young (a fresh graduate) I was involved with and initiated in a matter of fact a number of tests with musicians. Recordings versus live performance of vocals and a few classical instruments. Active amplification, everything descrete. I wrote about it here in relation to discussion on best op-amps or something like this.
In most cases speakers could be told apart, amplifiers sometimes while preamps were too far away in the chain to be picked up most of the time. Note that the panel consisted of mostly young (ears) professional musicians who have good "audio" memory. Ordinary folks trying to enjoy music at home, and especially those 35 plus, are rather hopeless in most cases if their perception was to be tested in such environment.
My experience tells me that the best most people can do is to go for the active system with best speakers one can get (ask a friend musician to help in choosing) , then use good amps with good Bessel fourth order crossovers and enjoy music with closed eyes. Pulling ones earlobes out improves soundstage beyond any audio equipment capabilities.
I do not think Valico is after Halcros (pocket heavy but certainly wort mentioning) or even Edmond-Ovidiu design. Great amps judging by presented evidence and you are quite right that they should be mentioned here.
Also one could try to follow Doglas Self's distortion reduction method presented in EW early this year I think and implemented by Cambridge Audio in their 840 apm.
It would be interesting to hear experience of others exposed to blind A-B-C tests of audio equipmet - or even more interesting reproduction equipment versus live.
cheers,
I agree that I used "High End" term without too much thinking.
I just got the following opportunity:
Very good friend of mine, professional with 20 years experience with electronics, offered to build any amplifier to me.
So, instead of spending hard earned 1000 EUR on some mid class amp, I thought that it would be better, and much more fun if I invest in high quality components, and start this project...
We could do the following:
- find good tested schematics or project
- buy a bunch of components and carefully select best matched ones... (he has pro measuring equipment.)
- build everything taking care of every aspect...
- test everything, measure everything...
This mentioned, with high quality oversized power supply, high quality wiring (not clear silver, but Van den Hull or something like that..)
At the end, I do expect that I would have amp that should reward me with clean, not too colored sound, to enjoy music I like even more.
So, obviously, high end, is not something I was looking for at the firs place.... But just better than confection amps...
I just got the following opportunity:
Very good friend of mine, professional with 20 years experience with electronics, offered to build any amplifier to me.
So, instead of spending hard earned 1000 EUR on some mid class amp, I thought that it would be better, and much more fun if I invest in high quality components, and start this project...
We could do the following:
- find good tested schematics or project
- buy a bunch of components and carefully select best matched ones... (he has pro measuring equipment.)
- build everything taking care of every aspect...
- test everything, measure everything...
This mentioned, with high quality oversized power supply, high quality wiring (not clear silver, but Van den Hull or something like that..)
At the end, I do expect that I would have amp that should reward me with clean, not too colored sound, to enjoy music I like even more.
So, obviously, high end, is not something I was looking for at the firs place.... But just better than confection amps...
Dear all,
After a lot of reading and exploring, and after consulting with the friend that will build the amp for me, it is going to be:
Leach Amp - dual mono version.
Everything will be built with the best components I could find.
(can be hard to achieve in my country... but with some efforts...
The only part of the original plans my friend didn't like is PS.
He would prefer two transformers per channel (+ and - separate), or even 4... mentioning something about impedance I didn't quite understand, but, luckily I do not have to understand everything.
He also prefers good stabilization of PS.
But this starts new story...
So, again, thank you all for help...
After a lot of reading and exploring, and after consulting with the friend that will build the amp for me, it is going to be:
Leach Amp - dual mono version.
Everything will be built with the best components I could find.
(can be hard to achieve in my country... but with some efforts...
The only part of the original plans my friend didn't like is PS.
He would prefer two transformers per channel (+ and - separate), or even 4... mentioning something about impedance I didn't quite understand, but, luckily I do not have to understand everything.
He also prefers good stabilization of PS.
But this starts new story...
So, again, thank you all for help...
The majority of the circuits above can be lifted into the high-end by build quality. Not just capacitor or resistor selection, not just correct power supply rating (at least twice the amp power, at a minimum), but in case design, paying attention to all of the details, proper circuit board design, eliminating vibrations, making the amp bullet proof and so forth.
This is usually the difference between 'good' and true 'high end'.
Adrian
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