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Old 26th June 2007, 04:26 PM   #1
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Default What make a power amp to have a better soundstage ?

Hello

Carlos wrote in the Dx amp thread; "....the sound stage makes the bigger difference, and modifications to increase, or to control sound stage..." (Post #1927)

I find that to be a very interesting subject.

First, here's a partial definition of soundstage;

"The soundstage describes the extent to which a stereo system reproduces the location of instruments and vocalists as they were positioned during recording and mixing.

Good imaging creates a listening experience that seems natural and lifelike. The key to attaining the best possible imaging is equal and unobstructed path lengths between your tweeters and your ears. That's one of the reasons why matched component speakers, with their versatile tweeter placement, sound as good as they do."

The better the soundstage, the greater the sense of its definite width, depth and height.


So, for a better soundstage, a power amp sould have fast transient response, low phase distortions, low transient distortions... and maby others things that I forgot ?

Thank

Gaetan
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Old 26th June 2007, 05:46 PM   #2
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Default What make a power amp to have a better soundstage ?

gandza
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Old 26th June 2007, 05:53 PM   #3
Hartono is offline Hartono  Indonesia
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the amp need some speaker connected to it, preferable 20.5 channel for maximum 3D effect..............................
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Old 26th June 2007, 06:33 PM   #4
gary f is offline gary f  Canada
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I would say that speakers quality and speakers location and room acoustics are far more important than amplifier quality. Now, that doesn't help you much...

Amplifiers are overated anyway...
F
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Old 26th June 2007, 07:28 PM   #5
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Default Better separation into stereo channels helps a lot


Two separated supplies....two separated rectifier, two separated bank of capacitors helps a lot.

Two mono amplifiers, entirelly separated gives you more separation.

When left and rigth have the same volume...sounds seems that comes from the center point between the speakers....the differences in volume and in tonality creates to you the ambience... something that allow you to evaluate spatial position.... how loud some instrument is may create the deepness.

Sound stage, in my point of view is a brain creation...or a brain re-creation base in the microphones positioning during the recording.

The same way we have stereoscopic vision...the angle between your eyes to a certain "target" will be informed to the brain...that data is what reference your "thinking department"...called conscience, to analise the distance that target has related your eyes.... without two eyes we cannot evaluate distance correctly...or...at least will need the "long learning process" to adapt a single eye information to the new reality..as only one angle will be the input to brain.

The same way eyes plus brain evaluate distance..... our ears can detect position and distances too.

Phase of some instrument may he helpfull to brain too...this will be another information about distance...timing information.....well...i read that but i personally do not believe we can have all that precision...at least.... this not detected by conscience.

To better audition...use a dark room... reduce all external inputs...nothing to your vision...nothing to your stomach...cannot need to go to WC...cannot be hungry...must sit confortable and must be calm to evaluate sonics when comparing...reduce all other inputs to your brain.... keep only your ears working and focused.

Speaker must be at your ears level.... absorbing material must be around to absorb reflections to help you evaluate.

The position...left to rigth, depend on the separation of channels...and deepness of field depends that you have no "blend" into your amplifier...the biggest possible "impedance" from left to rigth channel....mixing them...blending..interconnecting or something alike will cancel a lot of signals that are inverted one each other related phase.... sound will be blurred, will loose details..as a result bad separation, bad horizontal positioning and also problems related deepness.

In my idea.... trully separated amplifiers...double mono.... in different cases, different transformers...everything twin...will produce the good separation....and deepness..... in my point of view..sound stage is constituted in those main subjects.... separation and deepness....personal point of view folks.

Give your contribution to forum folks, to me, to the world, to the mankind.

Please, post your ideas...no problem if they dennie mine

Who told ya that i am the truth?

regards,

Carlos
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Old 26th June 2007, 07:36 PM   #6
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I agree DX.

If you can't get seperate supplies then matched components (resistors,transistors etc) and a good attenuator (ie stepped attenuator or accurate pot) are very worthwhile when looking for better imaging.

I'm using Tannoy coaxials at the moment with a stepped attenuator and the staging is now excellent. The biggest problem for me now are reflections from the side walls. The elephant in the room is .... the room!

I haven't heard any 'high end' speakers yet but I can't imagine listening to anything else except coaxials or maybe full range. Everything else just sounds un-natural to me because of phase issues.

I believe that phase is so important. Humans are designed to be sensitive to it. It is what keeps us alive when danger approaches and is a fundamental auditory cue.
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Old 26th June 2007, 08:36 PM   #7
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Default Thank you, this is to cooperate, to be together and close mon ami Gaetan


Ma cooperaccion pour vous mon ami.

My cooperation to you Gaetan.

au revor,

Charle
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Old 26th June 2007, 08:48 PM   #8
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Old 26th June 2007, 09:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Better separation into stereo channels helps a lot

Quote:
Originally posted by destroyer X

Two separated supplies....two separated rectifier, two separated bank of capacitors helps a lot.


IME a better result is achieved by using separate supplies for each stage rather than for each channel. Probably because parasitic coupling between the stages through the ps destroys phase information.

Some may argue that properly designed circuit with current sources, current mirrors, cascodes etc should provide sufficient psrr but using separate PS always seems to improve the soundstage. The good thing is that the input stage can get away with a very modest transformer and filter caps.
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Old 26th June 2007, 10:01 PM   #10
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I was just thinking that since a large part of front to back layering and the ability for the speakers to disappear is phase related, that being able to mantain the phase of the signal as much as possible is important. However, speakers will play a much larger role in this than will the amp or preamp. What the amp and preamp do contribute to is what Charles said, balance between the channels, with as much channel seperation as possible. When everything is in the same case and share a supply and everything else, the capacitive coupling causes the channel seperation to become ever worse as you go higher in frequency.
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