I started out with film and tape too. PITA to do design reviews 
When we got the Cadnetix workstations, it was wow, thank god too computers. We had two ladies running the layout stations, the EE's shared the 2 entry stations. Even then we had a smart EE auto-generating resistors libs with E96 value codes. remember sitting with the pcb layout ladies saying this goes here and there, route it this way and that way, this is why we do it this way, just like it is here
In Nigel's case it is nice to see a developer actually use the s/w to make pcbs.
Now if the developers can take input from the people using these tools to make productivity/usefulness improvements, life would be easier. At HP it was productivity, make it right the first time. We scored ourselves on pcb design spins. One time we had a brain dead ASIC, we had to put a bunch of FPGAs around it to fix all the errors, I think we got to 8 or more spins to get it right for production. I got lots of overtime $ on that project. Even did a few weekends to pull in the schedule to get us back on track.
At HP, there was group who solely made libraries. Of course a app to submit, track part builds etc. Another group which wrote Ample code to customize the Mentor DA/BoardStation toolset to make it more productive. Stuff like auto generating pad stacks that were mfg process dependent, like was the smt part going to be wave soldered or IR reflow, paste in through-hole process, stencil thickness and the list goes on, what wonderful design environment it was to be in.
Tthe CCT SP55 router was $~50KUS in the mid 90's, big buck stuff. Used mostly for digital pcbs, but we ran with ~50MHz clocks at that time. Analog/placement stuff was always done by hand
When we got the Cadnetix workstations, it was wow, thank god too computers. We had two ladies running the layout stations, the EE's shared the 2 entry stations. Even then we had a smart EE auto-generating resistors libs with E96 value codes. remember sitting with the pcb layout ladies saying this goes here and there, route it this way and that way, this is why we do it this way, just like it is here In Nigel's case it is nice to see a developer actually use the s/w to make pcbs.
Now if the developers can take input from the people using these tools to make productivity/usefulness improvements, life would be easier. At HP it was productivity, make it right the first time. We scored ourselves on pcb design spins. One time we had a brain dead ASIC, we had to put a bunch of FPGAs around it to fix all the errors, I think we got to 8 or more spins to get it right for production. I got lots of overtime $ on that project. Even did a few weekends to pull in the schedule to get us back on track.
At HP, there was group who solely made libraries. Of course a app to submit, track part builds etc. Another group which wrote Ample code to customize the Mentor DA/BoardStation toolset to make it more productive. Stuff like auto generating pad stacks that were mfg process dependent, like was the smt part going to be wave soldered or IR reflow, paste in through-hole process, stencil thickness and the list goes on, what wonderful design environment it was to be in.
Tthe CCT SP55 router was $~50KUS in the mid 90's, big buck stuff. Used mostly for digital pcbs, but we ran with ~50MHz clocks at that time. Analog/placement stuff was always done by hand
Ditto.....then they decided to do all the libraries in Malaysia. It on average three tries to get a simple part right. Forget a 144 ball BGA.
Tthe CCT SP55 router was $~50KUS in the mid 90's, big buck stuff. Used mostly for digital pcbs.
Cooper Chyan was a Cadence thing if I remember right. We had to run our Mentor designs through some kind of conversion before running CCT on them. Mid 90's we were doing the iDEN Phones (Nextel, Clearnet...). I would tell the layout guy where to place each RF part and how to route it. I would then draw keepout zones, and then Mr layout would turn CCT loose on the digital and power circuits.
It was Cooper & Chyan to begin with, shape based routing, then Cadence bought them out iirc because now one had a router like this one. I always ran the router on a 1mil routing grid rule, it did its magic. Fun to watch it do its figuring out
That is right Mentor wrote the interface for the first rev's for BS, then I think CCT took it over, something like that, maybe when Cadence took over. The Mentor I/F was good, it translated all the net group rules, length rules, from-to's, net ordering ...
HP lib group was where else, in California. Near perfect libraries, too much at stake for library errors. Most of the productivity group there too. The RF group was doing all kinds of cool stuff, auto rf filters in etch, you know that sort of stuff. HP had that RF toolset? it was some how integrated with BS layout.
I ran the SP55 for a while, it was all about setting up the "Do" script file to do it the way you wanted. All the critical net cross coupling factors had to be figured out. We tried to get a run in the queue before we went home.
Okay history lesson over, back to our regular topic, Orcad wish they kept it alive or at least ported it properly to win10, as it was good enough for most designs except the really tough stuff.
That is right Mentor wrote the interface for the first rev's for BS, then I think CCT took it over, something like that, maybe when Cadence took over. The Mentor I/F was good, it translated all the net group rules, length rules, from-to's, net ordering ...
HP lib group was where else, in California. Near perfect libraries, too much at stake for library errors. Most of the productivity group there too. The RF group was doing all kinds of cool stuff, auto rf filters in etch, you know that sort of stuff. HP had that RF toolset? it was some how integrated with BS layout.
I ran the SP55 for a while, it was all about setting up the "Do" script file to do it the way you wanted. All the critical net cross coupling factors had to be figured out. We tried to get a run in the queue before we went home.
Okay history lesson over, back to our regular topic, Orcad
wish they kept it alive or at least ported it properly to win10, as it was good enough for most designs except the really tough stuff.
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Sent as soon as your payment came through.
Any problems or if you need help don't hesitate to get in touch.
I would recommend watching demo video on launcher page first.
Then read at least first few paragraphs of manual to get you started.
PCBCAD51 from the website:
Touch screen compatible.
Fully supported product sent by first class recorded post.
2018 Windows version of PCBCAD51 PCB DESIGN SOFTWARE with 127 LAYER AUTOROUTER.
Runs on Windows XP (SP3) , Windows Vista and Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 10.
This is a mature product with no bug list, if I find a bug it is fixed immediately.
Support for this product is second to none, you are supported by the guy who wrote this software.
Schematic and PCB symbol designer wizards.
Auto creates SIL, DIL, circular and QUAD PCB footprints from your parameters.
Schematic entry with auto convert schematic to PCB ratsnest, unconnected pin scanner and single ended net scanner.
PCB entry with 127 layer rip up and retry auto-router with clearance and continuity check.
360 degree rotations of pcb components with obround pads.
Integrity checker, compares schematic and PCB for differences.
Component locater.
Parts list output.
Schematic/PCB component auto-renumbering and re-annotation.
RS274X Gerber file generator and NC/Excellon drill file generator.
Pick and place file generator with fiducial option.
3D PCB viewer module.
Output schematic to printer auto-sized.
Output PCB to printer in 4:1, 2:1 and 1:1 scaling, inversion and mirroring about x and y axis.
Merge schematics and merge PCB's.
Library scanners for fast component selection.
Gerber file viewer (PCBCAD51 files only)
Component locater, block-mode for repeats, shifts, rotations etc.
Net optimizer for shortest routes.
Auto component placers for minimum routing.
Recursive auto-autoplace, rotational autoplace and swap autoplacer.
Auto-place and route recursively function for lazy PCB design.
Unconnected pin scanner.
Forward annotation function from schematic to PCB.
Screen capture to bitmap file in schematic and PCB entry.
PCB's up to 50 by 50 inches.
127 copper layers.
127 resist layers.
Copper pours, each layer can be connected to a different NET.
2 silk layers (upper/lower)
Comes with symbol libraries, 4000, 7400, smd4000, smd7400 and general as standard.
User manual in each module
I have looked numerous pcb cad packages over the years including kcad and others. As mentioned earlier, the library is where most time is spent.
I did look at circuitmaker at one point.
Orcad is sort of my standard to gauge others. Orcad was not delivered with a large library but it was easy to build new parts.
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I am always a bit suspicious about free software.
Having downloaded a lot of programs quite often you get extra software you don't need on the back of it.
Also, what incentive does the software writers have to give their software away for free ? No incentive to keep improving it as there is no money in it.
No incentive to fix bugs.
I do agree with Nigel. For the $, PCBCAD51 is a very good deal imo.
As for me, I do not know if it would meet my requirements, unless I evaluate it. I have to buy it in order to evaluate it, which imo would detract me from committing to something that I could not evaluate first, regardless of $
Like I have said, I have mostly used hi-end very expensive ecad s/w in the past. The more expensive the more complicated, but what is very important is that it easy to use and does not have a steep learning curve.
there is chaep s/w that is not very easy to use and very expensive s/w that is very easy to use.
many folks unfamiliar with pcb design will struggle with all eCad s/w because they have to learn the fundamentals first regardless of the complexity of the s/w.
Good doc's and tutorials help in this regard.
As for libraries as long as they provide good templates to work from, then you stand a better chance. Wizards can help if they are intuitive to use.
Once you have used a few flavours of eCad s/w you know what to look for and what the deficiencies are.
One day I'd like to evaluate PCBCAD51.
I do have one? Gerber file viewer (PCBCAD51 files only) We spoke of this before. why can it only look at PCBCAD51 gerber files only? I know Nigel said gerber RS-274x is a big standard but also on that token it is a standard so if I can read the gerber data that PCBCAD51 generates, why can it not view other gerber and/or excdellon drill data generated from another eCad s/w tool? Most of it is interpreting apertures and drawing primitives is not?
As for me, I do not know if it would meet my requirements, unless I evaluate it. I have to buy it in order to evaluate it, which imo would detract me from committing to something that I could not evaluate first, regardless of $
Like I have said, I have mostly used hi-end very expensive ecad s/w in the past. The more expensive the more complicated, but what is very important is that it easy to use and does not have a steep learning curve.
there is chaep s/w that is not very easy to use and very expensive s/w that is very easy to use.
many folks unfamiliar with pcb design will struggle with all eCad s/w because they have to learn the fundamentals first regardless of the complexity of the s/w.
Good doc's and tutorials help in this regard.
As for libraries as long as they provide good templates to work from, then you stand a better chance. Wizards can help if they are intuitive to use.
Once you have used a few flavours of eCad s/w you know what to look for and what the deficiencies are.
One day I'd like to evaluate PCBCAD51.
I do have one? Gerber file viewer (PCBCAD51 files only) We spoke of this before. why can it only look at PCBCAD51 gerber files only? I know Nigel said gerber RS-274x is a big standard but also on that token it is a standard so if I can read the gerber data that PCBCAD51 generates, why can it not view other gerber and/or excdellon drill data generated from another eCad s/w tool? Most of it is interpreting apertures and drawing primitives is not?
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The Gerber standard is huge and so difficult to incorporate every function.
The Gerber viewer was only written to verify the output from PCBCAD51 Gerber file and NC drill file generator for the user.
If you want an excellent free gerber viewer take a look at GCPrevue.
That's what I use for verifying PCBCAD51 gerber and drill files.
The Gerber viewer was only written to verify the output from PCBCAD51 Gerber file and NC drill file generator for the user.
If you want an excellent free gerber viewer take a look at GCPrevue.
That's what I use for verifying PCBCAD51 gerber and drill files.
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And here I am thinking gerber was made to be a simple photo-plotting language standard since it was originally intended to drive simple mechanical machines, before computers. Define a aperture, i.e circle(diam), open shutter, draw simple vectors from x,y coordinates, close shudder.
Have you actually tried to read in gerber data from other eCad s/w packages?
The drill files are primitive from my inspection, define drill or finished hole size, define x-y coordinate for the hit. All the hits for that drill definition are grouped together. I assume the fab will optimize the file for its own purpose. All the tolerances, special features, slots have to be defined in the fabrication drawings.
Still today, we have to generate a separate plated and non-plated drill file for fab = still primitive, just like gerber, so I thought
Have you actually tried to read in gerber data from other eCad s/w packages?
The drill files are primitive from my inspection, define drill or finished hole size, define x-y coordinate for the hit. All the hits for that drill definition are grouped together. I assume the fab will optimize the file for its own purpose. All the tolerances, special features, slots have to be defined in the fabrication drawings.
Still today, we have to generate a separate plated and non-plated drill file for fab = still primitive, just like gerber, so I thought
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PCBCAD51 PCB Entry can import Gerber files but only a subset of Gerber.
But that is a terrible way to do pcb's. They should be done from a schematic so they are easy to alter and verify.
Gerber import is a last resort.
Not sure how you are getting the impression that I do not know that you need a schematic or netlist to make a pcb? We stopped using postage stamps for schematics many years ago
Having a Gerber viewer is a luxury. I use a Gerber viewer as a means to verify that the eCAD pcb software can actually generate the fab data properly? Pre-gerber 274X it was std practice to ask for a set of check photo-plots and verify cycle before we gave the go ahead to fab the pcb. This is because we were burnt once when there was an error in the aperture table translation.
Even yourself admit that you need a way to verify that you are generating the gerber data correctly.
Having a Gerber viewer is a luxury. I use a Gerber viewer as a means to verify that the eCAD pcb software can actually generate the fab data properly? Pre-gerber 274X it was std practice to ask for a set of check photo-plots and verify cycle before we gave the go ahead to fab the pcb. This is because we were burnt once when there was an error in the aperture table translation.
Even yourself admit that you need a way to verify that you are generating the gerber data correctly.
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And here I am thinking gerber was made to be a simple photo-plotting language standard
Gerber is a huge standard with many functions.
Logical, so did every other Ecad s/w co. knowing the problems we have experienced.
Gerber may be the case where there are multiple ways to do the same thing, so it would be way more complicated to interpret it but then again it maybe simpler, if most eCad s/w all use the same methods, using only a sub set then the task would be simpler, I would think.
Back to my ?, have you ever tried to read in gerber 274x/drill data from another eCAD s/w package?
P.S. Might be a way to generate more sales for your product.
I did once, and it didn't work.
I have never found the need for myself as I always start from PCBCAD51 schematics and PCB's.
I know I can trust PCBCAD51 files as the error checking is excellent.
I also find PCBCAD51 very helpful when laying out pcb's with its auto-placing functions.
The swap auto-place is almost instantaneous and makes a big difference to auto-routing.
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