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Old 4th June 2017, 04:54 PM   #11
diyaudnut is offline diyaudnut  United States
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Kimmo,

Congrats for creating such a powerful software suite and thanks for making it available to all. I am sure you are not in it for the money, but a donation link would help those who can afford, offer some appreciation for your work.

As far features are concerned:
A DSP based crossover emulation through an ASIO multichannel DAC, might allow users to listen, voice and tune passive crossover designs before finalizing the components.
It might be an interesting programming challenge
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Old 5th June 2017, 05:59 AM   #12
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diyaudnut View Post
I am sure you are not in it for the money, but a donation link would help those who can afford, offer some appreciation for your work.
VituixCAD was shareware for 85€ before version 1.0. Then I decided to change it freeware due to lower step for users, pressures, responsibilities and possibility to get free help or source code for programming.
Few earlier versions had also donation button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diyaudnut View Post
A DSP based crossover emulation ... might be an interesting programming challenge
That would be a challenge, though some parts of LiveSpice project could be usable. At the moment it is possible to export impulse response of each passive (or active) filter to multichannel convolver or dsp-device (miniSHARC, 2x4HD). That takes a while longer than real-time application with integrated convolver.

In the other hand, one target of VituixCAD is to give possibility to design crossover without listening at all. That is already done few times with common speaker concepts. New concepts (for designer) are worth to study by listening and tuning values before hot-cluing components on the board. Optimized power response and other directivity features increase certainty and durability of simulation quite significantly. This kind of designing could be boring, but traditional listening & component swapping is still possible if that's good entertainment for someone.

Last edited by kimmosto; 5th June 2017 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 5th June 2017, 02:12 PM   #13
Windforce85 is offline Windforce85  Poland
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You could incorporate simulation of passive cardioid enclosure with accouting for stuffing and vent positions. It is probably hard to do becouse you need incorporate model of wave propagation around and inside of such enclosure and damping material properities. There is no software which is able to do this in easily understandable by humans way.
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Old 5th June 2017, 06:23 PM   #14
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Simulation of complex directive systems is close to simulation of food. There are simply too many choices for materials, components and dimensions. Acoustical parameters of different materials are approximations based on empirical research of "someone" with locally available products. Resistance ported system can also include short horn, auxiliary internal drivers or ported internal chambers. Simulator shouldn't be limited only for resistance boxes. It should cover also horns and dipole+dipole and monopole+dipole combinations, with or without short horns and/or rear side damping.

Much simpler is to have couple of tested and scalable recipes for different kind of directive systems, IMO. Just build and tune if needed and be happy when polar pattern stays somewhere within cardioid and hyper-cardioid. Doesn't have to be constant. That is not so difficult.
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Old 9th June 2017, 08:14 PM   #15
kessito is offline kessito  Netherlands
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Location: Amsterdam
Thank you for this great tool!

I have 3 suggestions which would make even better;
1- its very nice that you can scrollwheel frequencies gains and q in the filter window, what would be usefull is that with alt+scroll or shift+scroll you get a finer stepsize.

2-it would be nice to be able to use a smaller dB range in the polar frequency window, for instance 0to -10 dB

3- it would be nice to be able to 'step' the color range in the polar plot i.e 0to-2 is a color -2to-4 is a color etc.

Thanks again!

Kees
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Old 9th June 2017, 11:40 PM   #16
Zero D is offline Zero D  United Kingdom
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@ kimmosto

Hi, i & i'm sure Lots of other people, would love it if we could design passive and/or active Xovers & alter components & hear the results in Real Time with loudspeakers.

Hopefully you will consider it

Thanx
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Old 10th June 2017, 10:09 AM   #17
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero D View Post
Hopefully you will consider it
I will, though almost everything is against that on my side. I've never had sound card with more than four output channels. That could be one reason why I have not tried emulation with LspCAD 6 Pro which I've owned for years. Never tested how close emulator can get. Some differences will remain. For example passive is possible to optimize for lower distortion by increasing current driving features. Emulator could have some advantages too.

One possible problem with trusting ears is that result is more or less optimized for certain room(s) and listening point(s). Suitability for other listening conditions and placements may suffer if weight of simulation is too low or simulation is too limited with axial responses only. This applies mostly to customer projects.

I realize that designing with crossover simulation only (without listening & tuning inf. loop) requires good measurement gear, experience with acoustic measurements and adequate understanding how simulation correlates with real life. Emulator could be cheap and fast learning system for that knowhow.
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Old 10th June 2017, 02:19 PM   #18
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kessito View Post
1- shift+scroll you get a finer stepsize.
This will be in the next revision. Finer step is ~1/4.
Some step values are already smallest possible e.g. 0.1 dB step for gain and E12 & E24 snap for passive components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kessito View Post
2- smaller dB range in the polar frequency
Directivity chart has common span with SPL and Power&DI charts. Therefore smaller than 20 dB will not work as common setting. 20 dB is available in the next revision, but that's not very convenient for continuous use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kessito View Post
3- 'step' the color range in the polar plot
This kind of visualization has some problems and challenges when source data is polar responses to different directions with e.g. 10 deg steps:
1) Most of the points/pixels at the edge of color steps or contour lines are result of (linear) interpolation. Shapes are not measured fact.
2) Needs more complex implementation than simple graphical interpolation with gradient rectangles, though "it's only work"

Line and Area charts stay in the measured facts and show all directions with much better accuracy than polar map. Reference angle can be used for emphasized cursor.
Polar map is very popular but the status is not entirely earned with polar response data. It's visual and beautiful, but mostly incorrect.
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Old 11th June 2017, 11:25 AM   #19
kimmosto is offline kimmosto  Finland
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Join Date: Oct 2005
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Revision 1.1.7.0 (2017-06-11) is out.
See changelog, refresh to see the latest.
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Old 11th June 2017, 11:33 AM   #20
diypass is offline diypass
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Join Date: Apr 2012
really wonderfull!!, thank you
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