Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Software Tools

Software Tools SPICE, PCB CAD, speaker design and measurement software, calculators

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11th December 2013, 12:41 AM   #1
majod is offline majod  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Help creating a pcb layout from schematics

Hello guys,
I'm new to building my own pcbs so I would really appreciate if someone could please make a pcb layout from this schematic picture
Click the image to open in full size.
I've tried for hours using PCB Creator and Eagle but I couldn't find a way to do to make the routes work, and please attach the schematic file as well as the pcb layout file so I could learn.
Thanks in advance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2013, 01:15 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
sofaspud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Antonio
Call it "tough love" if you'd like...
IMHO you're not trying hard enough, or you're over-thinking the problem. This PCB is about as easy as it gets. If need be, use jumper wires (ie 0Ω resistors) to cross over other traces that are in the way (assuming a single-sided board).
Is the difficulty in connecting pins 5 and 13, and/or pins 3, 7, & 11? The other connections are fairly straightforward.
__________________
It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from enquiry. - Thomas Paine
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2013, 01:18 AM   #3
zlast is offline zlast  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: none
Send a message via AIM to zlast Send a message via MSN to zlast Send a message via Yahoo to zlast
Default PCB

Quote:
Originally Posted by majod View Post
Hello guys,
I'm new to building my own pcbs so I would really appreciate if someone could please make a pcb layout from this schematic picture
Click the image to open in full size.
I've tried for hours using PCB Creator and Eagle but I couldn't find a way to do to make the routes work, and please attach the schematic file as well as the pcb layout file so I could learn.
Thanks in advance.
You MIGHT try using google and looking for a PCB latout....
__________________
none
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2013, 01:26 AM   #4
majod is offline majod  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zlast View Post
You MIGHT try using google and looking for a PCB latout....
Thanks for the reply,
well I tried google but couldn't find a layout for this exact schematic I found one that is similar with a few changes and I also want to understand how its made so a picture only from isn't enough
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2013, 01:29 AM   #5
majod is offline majod  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofaspud View Post
Call it "tough love" if you'd like...
IMHO you're not trying hard enough, or you're over-thinking the problem. This PCB is about as easy as it gets. If need be, use jumper wires (ie 0Ω resistors) to cross over other traces that are in the way (assuming a single-sided board).
Is the difficulty in connecting pins 5 and 13, and/or pins 3, 7, & 11? The other connections are fairly straightforward.
Okay thanks I'll try to do it like you said and sorry but I'm very new to this stuff and realy trying to learn also I wanted it as an example to learn from.

Last edited by majod; 11th December 2013 at 01:34 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2013, 07:37 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
dchisholm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: St Louis, Mo
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofaspud View Post
Call it "tough love" if you'd like...
IMHO you're not trying hard enough . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by zlast View Post
You MIGHT try using google and looking for a PCB latout....
Yeah, seeding a search engine with "tda1554 pcb" seems to turn up several candidates.

On this Forum, and similar venues covering a WIDE range of subjects at both hobby and professional levels, basic etiquette requires participants seeking help to show that they have made some effort to find a solution to their problem. At a very fundamental level this separates the "gimme" from the "teach me" attitude. Those who have neither the time nor the inclination to adopt a "teach me" approach are sometimes advised to engage the services of a professional design engineer; an apprentice costs about $30/hr and up, while those with their feces amalgamated command double that rate or more.

If you have a PWB layout for a similar circuit but don't have access to PWB layout software you can still use something like Microsoft "Paint" to mark-up an image with the changes you think are necessary to meet your requirements. I'll bet that Forum members will let you know if the changes are electrically correct, and probably throw in gratis comments on trace routing, component placement, etc.

Quote:
. . . . all good things—trout as well as eternal salvation—come by grace and grace comes by art and art does not come easy.

- Norman Maclean, from "A River Runs Through It"
PWB layout is definitely an art. Your instinct suggests it can be learned by studying and replicating the works of master artisans and there is a great deal of truth to that. Innate ability, perseverance, opportunity, and confidence - as well as the previously mentioned competent instruction - all play a role, though these qualities can be traded off against each other to some degree.

Walking the path from minimal adequacy through mediocrity to mastery takes time and effort. That's the way the "perversity of nature" - or, as Maclean would probably call it, the "fallen creation" - works. Others walking the path sometimes leave blazes or guidelines along the trail, which are nearly meaningless until you happen to be passing that exact location, so don't be discouraged if some advice you encounter doesn't make sense. I daresay every professional master has, at some time, looked at a layout and asked "Who was suffering from a cranial-rectal inversion when they created this?" - only to find their own initials in the last block of the "Revisions" record.

Your circuit, while basic, has some subtle pitfalls. 40 watts (total) power is far from "high power" by most standards but it's a LOT more than you find in small-signal circuits. It's important to identify the high-current traces, adequately size them, and route them to avoid coupling from either electromagnetic effects or IR drops. There's also a large amount of potential gain floating around in this circuit. Each channel is only 26 dB (20 V/V) but accidental coupling from one channel to another could create a power oscillator. And don't be fooled by the idea that this chip amplifies "only" audio frequencies; I'll bet sections within that IC have bandwidths extending well into the MHz range.

I'm hardly competent to pass judgement, but I still look forward to seeing the results of your efforts! One of these days I'll do some chip amp project so we can learn together.

Dale
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2013, 01:12 AM   #7
majod is offline majod  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchisholm View Post
Yeah, seeding a search engine with "tda1554 pcb" seems to turn up several candidates.

On this Forum, and similar venues covering a WIDE range of subjects at both hobby and professional levels, basic etiquette requires participants seeking help to show that they have made some effort to find a solution to their problem. At a very fundamental level this separates the "gimme" from the "teach me" attitude. Those who have neither the time nor the inclination to adopt a "teach me" approach are sometimes advised to engage the services of a professional design engineer; an apprentice costs about $30/hr and up, while those with their feces amalgamated command double that rate or more.

If you have a PWB layout for a similar circuit but don't have access to PWB layout software you can still use something like Microsoft "Paint" to mark-up an image with the changes you think are necessary to meet your requirements. I'll bet that Forum members will let you know if the changes are electrically correct, and probably throw in gratis comments on trace routing, component placement, etc.

PWB layout is definitely an art. Your instinct suggests it can be learned by studying and replicating the works of master artisans and there is a great deal of truth to that. Innate ability, perseverance, opportunity, and confidence - as well as the previously mentioned competent instruction - all play a role, though these qualities can be traded off against each other to some degree.

Walking the path from minimal adequacy through mediocrity to mastery takes time and effort. That's the way the "perversity of nature" - or, as Maclean would probably call it, the "fallen creation" - works. Others walking the path sometimes leave blazes or guidelines along the trail, which are nearly meaningless until you happen to be passing that exact location, so don't be discouraged if some advice you encounter doesn't make sense. I daresay every professional master has, at some time, looked at a layout and asked "Who was suffering from a cranial-rectal inversion when they created this?" - only to find their own initials in the last block of the "Revisions" record.

Your circuit, while basic, has some subtle pitfalls. 40 watts (total) power is far from "high power" by most standards but it's a LOT more than you find in small-signal circuits. It's important to identify the high-current traces, adequately size them, and route them to avoid coupling from either electromagnetic effects or IR drops. There's also a large amount of potential gain floating around in this circuit. Each channel is only 26 dB (20 V/V) but accidental coupling from one channel to another could create a power oscillator. And don't be fooled by the idea that this chip amplifies "only" audio frequencies; I'll bet sections within that IC have bandwidths extending well into the MHz range.

I'm hardly competent to pass judgement, but I still look forward to seeing the results of your efforts! One of these days I'll do some chip amp project so we can learn together.

Dale
Thanks for your reply Dale,
there is some truth to what you said but not all of it is true I'm trying to learn and not following a "gimme" approach but since this is my very first circuit I just thought that I would need an example to get me started also my free time is very limited those days and I'm spending every minute on this project this circuit is a part of a 5.1 amp that I'm trying to make and believe me if I had the money I wouldn't build this myself I would have replaced the speakers altogether not because I don't like electronics but because the lack of time anyway I have gathered some more info and learned some new things and put everything I have into this pcb please take a look at it and tell me what you think
Attached Images
File Type: bmp qqqqq.BMP (9.6 KB, 25 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th December 2013, 01:13 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
sofaspud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Antonio
Quote:
Originally Posted by majod View Post
Okay thanks I'll try to do it like you said and sorry but I'm very new to this stuff and realy trying to learn also I wanted it as an example to learn from.
It's simply my position that "do it for me, please" is counter to the foundation of this forum. But direction and guidance isn't below anyone. I'm not, regrettably, as skilled as I'd like to be with board layouts; I just did a chip amp board last weekend that I think is okay, but I want to go over it for a few days with fresh eyes before committing solder.
I said previously that most of the connections are straightforward; they mostly join to nearby pins. So the best course is to place them as near the chip as possible. The others, like pins 3 & 5, may possibly be joined to other pins right under the chip, with short traces. Perhaps the inputs and/or outputs don't need to run to the board edge, which could then leave some room to maneuver other traces.
Throughout the layout process, keep in mind the tracks that carry higher power, as mentioned. Keep inputs well separated from outputs. Have a grounding scheme in mind to minimize loop currents.
Give it another go and post your result.
__________________
It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from enquiry. - Thomas Paine
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2013, 01:31 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
dchisholm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: St Louis, Mo
Quote:
Originally Posted by majod View Post
. . . please take a look at it and tell me what you think
Not at all familiar with this chip but here are my thoughts.

Dale
Attached Images
File Type: png TDA1544_02.png (12.7 KB, 138 views)
File Type: png TDA1544_03.png (12.6 KB, 139 views)
File Type: png TDA1544_04.png (15.2 KB, 138 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th December 2013, 02:41 AM   #10
majod is offline majod  Switzerland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchisholm View Post
Not at all familiar with this chip but here are my thoughts.

Dale
Thanks alot for giving me your opinion on the layout unfortunately I made and it did not work the speakers just made a low hissing noise with a messed up version of the music I was playing.
I think I'll need to find another schematic and start over
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
diference between schematics and pcb layout antiantiv Tubes / Valves 6 19th November 2012 11:58 AM
PCB layout from supplied schematics hags Parts 1 21st September 2007 07:22 AM
Classé CAP-100 schematics/pcb layout FransDHT Solid State 0 18th January 2007 01:44 PM
PCB creating software Dr.H Parts 3 8th March 2005 08:43 PM
Creating new PCB Contacts bazooka Parts 2 30th January 2005 10:45 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:29 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2