Looking for helpful programs on building speakers? - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Software Tools

Software Tools SPICE, PCB CAD, speaker design and measurement software, calculators

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th July 2013, 08:11 PM   #21
Loren42 is offline Loren42  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: "Space Coast" Florida, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWizard View Post
Also remember REW (Room EQ Wizard) is FREE. It is a pretty sophisticated program at any price.

REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software

There are also help forums at HomeTheaterShack.com.

Here is a 3 part tutorial on YouTube, though there are many other videos on REW besides these three -

The Videos are in three steps -

1.) Setup and Calibration
2.) Check Levels
3.) Measurements

This should at least give you some idea of the software -

Room EQ Wizard - Step 1 - Calibration - YouTube


Room EQ Wizard - Step 2 - Check Levels - YouTube


Room EQ Wizard - Step 3 - Measurement - YouTube

Version 5 will do many of the functions necessary for pre-designing speakers, like impedance measurements, group delay, T/S Parameters, Impulse and Step response, and many more features.

The one thing it will not do is help you design the boxes.

I do agree with the other poster, reading a few books will help you understand the underlying science. Knowledge is never a bad thing. But be warned, the more you know, the more you realize what you don't know.

Also, when using design software, if you have a base of knowledge to work from, then when the results don't make sense, you can spot it and try and find the problem rather than blindly accepting what the software tells you.

It gets down to how much money you can justify spending relative to the project you are thinking of. If this is a single speaker project, or perhaps 2 or 3 basic projects over time. Then perhaps best to just copy existing designs.

However, if this could turn into a serious hobby, or if you think you might design projects for your friends, then more money is justified. Only you can know your needs and your budget.

But REW is free, and the learning curve doesn't seem that steep. So, it is hard to pass up. In addition, you will need a good microphone, and a 2 or 4 channel USB or Analog Mixer.

But it does get down to how much money you have and are willing to spend.

There is a program called LspCAD (Loudspeaker CAD) for about US$1000. Top notch, but you have to build a lot of speakers to justify that price.

On the low end, WinSpeakerz (True Audio) is $40. There is a free version that you can play with but it is lock into one hypothetical bass driver. Still, you can get a sense of the features and ease of use.

In a sense, it is down to your priorities and goals, as it always is. If you simply want to knock off a single pair of speakers for the fun of it. Then opt for free or low cost design software. If you are going to take it a little more serious, then spend some cash.

Also, as indicated, educate yourself. If for no other reason than to reasonably understand what the various graphs produced by your test program are telling you.

Steve/bluewizard

Steve/bluewizard
I have used HolmImpulse and that is also free.

Actually, if someone is simply wanting a DIY speaker solution without the learning curve, nothing beats a kit or a tested design.

If the goal is to design a good set of speakers from scratch, spending large sums of cash does not insure success any more than leveraging the free software or cheap software.

It seems we will just have a slight disagreement on that point.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th July 2013, 08:52 PM   #22
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren42 View Post
...

If the goal is to design a good set of speakers from scratch, spending large sums of cash does not insure success any more than leveraging the free software or cheap software.

It seems we will just have a slight disagreement on that point.

I'm not so sure we have a disagreement. You need a base of knowledge to work from so you can make wise decision in the design process. The design process still takes some intelligence; you don't simply push a button and out pops a perfectly formed speaker.

But on the other hand, there is no reason not to take advantage of the expertise that is made available to you. The design process is complex, and anything that can simplify it, it worth while.

So, it takes a combination of the two. You need a good base of knowledge and understanding of speaker design and all its intricacies and complication. But that the same time, there is no need to complicate any more than it already is. If you can get your hands on Software that helps you focus on the end result rather than the process, so much the better.

But when it comes to software, you have to make a reasonable and responsible decision. It makes little sense to buy $1000 software to build a single pair of $100 speakers. You have to find some compromise in which the expenditure is justified by the final goal.

When it comes to testing, you need a reasonable knowledge base of room acoustics and how they will effect any speaker you test. You need a reasonable understanding of reflections and standing waves, of peak and nulls in a room. You need all this to get your speaker into a circumstance that allows fair and reasonable testing.

There is no "One Button" solution. You need knowledge, a person needs at least a base education on all the factors that come into play. But, there is no need to bog yourself down in hours of math, the software will do the heavy lifting for you.

At its most basic, speaker design is easy. Make the box look like a speaker box for the size drivers you have. Tune the cabinet and port to the appropriate frequency, use generic nominal impedance crossover design. That's no more than some of the lower end commercial speaker makers do.

But, even this most simple and basic method, still requires some knowledge and understanding of speaker design.

At its most complex, speaker design is a multi-disipline PhD level engineering task, filled with cycles of design, prototype, testing, analysis, and redesign.

Most of us are above the generic cut'n'try design stage, but few of us are anywhere near the PhD Engineering Level stage.

So, yes, you need knowledge, but within the context of your needs and budget, some speaker design and testing software can be very helpful.

For what it is worth.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by BlueWizard; 24th July 2013 at 09:03 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th July 2013, 09:24 PM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
As an extension of my above post, and regarding room acoustic, as much as reflections, you need some clear sense of Boundary Re-enforcement. The proximity of your speakers to walls and floors can very much effect their output and performance.

As to the original poster, as I said, your expenditure on software has to be consistent with your ultimate goal. In short - how many speakers do you have to built to justify the outlay of $1000 on software, to justify $200 on software, to justify $40 on software.

The OP already has WinISD, that is a start. Too bad the makers of WinISD and WinISD Pro did not finish there product, it is a nice program and a finish product would be worth a little money. Yet, that is their choice, not mine.

There are many other free or trial software programs related to audio that are available. For testing, it is hard to beat REW (Room EQ Wizard). But for design, the best choice is a little unclear. That is down to your priorities and budget.

Steve/bluewizard
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2013, 01:32 AM   #24
Mr Jeff is offline Mr Jeff  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Wow what a lot of info on the post I posted? If no one really likes bass box pro what other programs will help me out better? I was looking at gettting this measuring system? ATB 701 Precision I have never heard of the brand but, the guys at meniscusaudio are really helpful. Again thanks everyone for your help. I will have to take my time and sort it all out. Mr. Jeff
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2013, 09:07 AM   #25
Zero D is offline Zero D  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
@ Mr Jeff

I think you might like WinISD, i've been using it for years & have designed lots of nice sounding etc cabinets with it. I wrote a Help thread which should assist

How to correctly use WinISD

Latest version is here http://www.linearteam.org/download/winisd-07x.exe
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th July 2013, 01:47 PM   #26
Loren42 is offline Loren42  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: "Space Coast" Florida, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jeff View Post
I was looking at gettting this measuring system? ATB 701 Precision I have never heard of the brand but, the guys at meniscusaudio are really helpful. Again thanks everyone for your help. I will have to take my time and sort it all out. Mr. Jeff
Not necessary or recommended.

You need two things to design and test speakers. 1 is software. Most of that is free if you take advantage of what is available.

The second is hardware (mic, USB interface, PC, amplifier, mic stand, etc.).

You can buy a calibrated microphone from Parts-Express and use a free software measurement program such as HolmImpulse or REW to capture the data.

For the mic, buy this...

Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone Allows For Accurate Acoustic Measurements At A Fraction Of The Price 390-801

You need a power amp, but if you are building speakers you already should have that (i.e., stereo amp).

You will need some sort of USB interface between the PC and the mic and the amplifier to drive the speakers.. I use the M-Audio MobilePre, but there are others out there that are less expensive. However, whatever you get, it needs to have phantom power already built in for the electric microphone.

There are software packages that offer design and test from start to finish such as Sound Easy. That package is $250.

Soundeasy In Stock At Parts Express With Free Shipping

The last time I evaluated it, it was a good package, but that was a few years ago and I do not know how that competes with current versions of other software. Sound Easy, I am told, has (or had) a steep learning curve, so you should evaluate it before committing that kind of money. I understand that newer versions have addressed that issue, but I don't know to what end

LspCAD (Standard) is a direct competitor that should do almost the same thing for about the same price and is supposed to be much easier to learn, but the Standard package is not as powerful as Sound Easy.

Untitled

Lastly, you may want to invest in a tool to test the raw speaker drivers and get their T/S parameters (if you need it - LspCAD and Sound Easy already support this)). Woofer Tester II or Parts-Express's version (cheaper) will do an excellent job and make the task easier by automating many of the steps.

woofer tester - Parts Express Ships Fast and Ships Free
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th August 2013, 05:26 PM   #27
Jsixis is offline Jsixis  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbus Ohio
WINISD, you can buy all the books and every other software you want and when your done being aggravated download this (the beta version) and start making speakers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2013, 10:21 AM   #28
schmeet is offline schmeet  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
schmeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsixis View Post
WINISD, you can buy all the books and every other software you want and when your done being aggravated download this (the beta version) and start making speakers.
I do agree with this to some extent.

It's great to know a bit of the theory but for sealed and even ported enclosures WinISD is so easy to use that most people can just get stuck in.

However, be aware that it is just estimated filter responses and doesn't modelling any resonances. So it wont highlight any issues with enclosures that have a long dimension and it won't model transmission lines.

That said, Sealed, Ported, Band-pass and Isobaric all model quite well.
__________________
Transmission Line Modelling Software
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2013, 12:25 AM   #29
Jsixis is offline Jsixis  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbus Ohio
What I like about it is it works and I especially like it gives me outside dimensions for the boxes. Entering your own speaker their small paramters is nice and easy. (I use woofer tester 2)

I have tried some other software and they want too much information. Like how much padding or absorption ratio of materials of room dimensions or they are just not intuitive for a dummy like me

I have used WinISD to make some 18"H 5" W and 7" D boxes to compare to a pair of voigt boxes I made (same size, same driver) and I am now making some long tall skinny boxes for a CTS 4" driver like the old Bose 901's series I & 2 had.

Resonances, always thought those were fixed by solid bracing and acoustical stuffing.
Transmission lines would be cool, I have a set of Heil cabs that take a 10" woofer, amazing the bottom end that comes out of those boxes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2013, 01:05 AM   #30
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren42 View Post
I would also not use a library of T/S parameters from any program nor those published by the manufacture. You must measure them yourself on the drivers you intend to use.
Most measures done at home with computers measure at a spot on the T/S curves much different than where LEAP or LMS measure (almost universally used by the manufacturers). For 1st pass on any box i use the factory numbers, Smith & Larson Woofer Tester 2 is a good 3rd to the above 2.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Building 3-way speakers Ninesvnsicks Multi-Way 295 14th March 2012 06:27 AM
Building new speakers! FelixAUS Multi-Way 54 7th February 2011 12:00 PM
Building my own speakers jjohnston Parts 2 17th November 2009 10:18 PM
Building my own speakers Supa Multi-Way 6 17th December 2006 11:16 PM
enclosure building programs felzi Subwoofers 1 19th June 2005 10:14 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:41 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2