Here's just a warning -- I use Ultiboard -- and probably wouldn't buy it again -- the legacy software (WIN98) is incompatible with Win2K -- no matter how many times you uninstall and reinstall it after a few tries it will refuse to open.
I discussed the problem with their techs in Canada -- they are aware of the problem and ARE NOT going to fix it -- their idea of a solution is to purchase the $800 upgrade. Apparently the problem is just now starting to hit Ultiboard users.
If you do have Multisim you can open Ultiboard by importing a dummy circuit using TRANSFER., then open up your circuit using FILE/OPEN
Perhaps I should voice my displeasure to Elektor, Nuts N Volts, AudioXpress and Circuit Cellar,
I discussed the problem with their techs in Canada -- they are aware of the problem and ARE NOT going to fix it -- their idea of a solution is to purchase the $800 upgrade. Apparently the problem is just now starting to hit Ultiboard users.
If you do have Multisim you can open Ultiboard by importing a dummy circuit using TRANSFER., then open up your circuit using FILE/OPEN
Perhaps I should voice my displeasure to Elektor, Nuts N Volts, AudioXpress and Circuit Cellar,
Yeah i've played around with Protel 99/ dxp, Eagle 4.11 and Express PCB.
Protel in my opinion is insanely overdone in terms of features. Everything you could ever need is there somewhere, everything you do need is hidden in with the rest. Purely frustrating to use for a beginner, I smashed a keyboard and walked out of a class trying.
Eagle is a nice mix, once you get the basics sorted ie switching between circuit and pcb its quite nice. Tracking down some components in the included library can be time consuming, but I should have compiled my own by now. Seems to have most of the useful features you need, without a lot of unneeded ones.
And finally, Express PCB. With a name like this, i wasn't expecting much, but for a very simple basically PCB draw program, this is it. Pick track size, draw track, pick component footprint, place component.
In my opinion, try Eagle, make ya schematic, switch to board, it places the components, you place the tracks, move stuff around, or let it autoroute, and done.
Protel in my opinion is insanely overdone in terms of features. Everything you could ever need is there somewhere, everything you do need is hidden in with the rest. Purely frustrating to use for a beginner, I smashed a keyboard and walked out of a class trying.
Eagle is a nice mix, once you get the basics sorted ie switching between circuit and pcb its quite nice. Tracking down some components in the included library can be time consuming, but I should have compiled my own by now. Seems to have most of the useful features you need, without a lot of unneeded ones.
And finally, Express PCB. With a name like this, i wasn't expecting much, but for a very simple basically PCB draw program, this is it. Pick track size, draw track, pick component footprint, place component.
In my opinion, try Eagle, make ya schematic, switch to board, it places the components, you place the tracks, move stuff around, or let it autoroute, and done.
Hi Bricolo,
I just started to try to design PCBs. I decided against 'Eagle' and choose 'Traxmaker' as being more easy to learn.
you can visit www.circuitmaker2000.com and download a trial, lots of info there and on the web too.
Goodluck,
Thijs
I just started to try to design PCBs. I decided against 'Eagle' and choose 'Traxmaker' as being more easy to learn.
you can visit www.circuitmaker2000.com and download a trial, lots of info there and on the web too.
Goodluck,
Thijs
I remember having tried eagle a year or two ago. Bad experience 
The design I tried to do did use "exotic" parts, and I had to do the eagle myself, that was such a pain especially for a beginner with this software.
Do all the softwares (including eagle) have models for classical DIY audio parts? (like regs, TDA154x DACs...)
The design I tried to do did use "exotic" parts, and I had to do the eagle myself, that was such a pain especially for a beginner with this software.Do all the softwares (including eagle) have models for classical DIY audio parts? (like regs, TDA154x DACs...)
Brico --
I have also used ExpressPCB in the past, switched to PCBExpress to make protos --
I just went to the ExpressPCB site (as I had taken the software off my machine) -- and downloaded the new version -- there is now a schematic editor from which you can transfer your designs to their CAD program.
ExpressPCB is pretty good for prototypes.
I have also used ExpressPCB in the past, switched to PCBExpress to make protos --
I just went to the ExpressPCB site (as I had taken the software off my machine) -- and downloaded the new version -- there is now a schematic editor from which you can transfer your designs to their CAD program.
ExpressPCB is pretty good for prototypes.
oops,
that should be www.circuitmaker.com
I've just downloaded ExpressPCB.. seems very easy to learn. The library seem quiet big, including opamp etc from various manufactures.. also the LM3875 is in the library.. no LM4780 yet...
Regards,
Thijs
that should be www.circuitmaker.com
I've just downloaded ExpressPCB.. seems very easy to learn. The library seem quiet big, including opamp etc from various manufactures.. also the LM3875 is in the library.. no LM4780 yet...
Regards,
Thijs
likely only interesting for German users
Since some years, I use this :
http://homepages.compuserve.de/ingwmaier/GEDDY6/geddy60.htm
Before I owned a CAD-program I was very afraid it`s too complicated for me.
After I tried a trial version (finally), I was surprised how easy this sort of stuff can be - without help of the manual (I`m one of those bad guys who don`t like to "read the ****ing manual" first ) I was able to make a very decent drawing and was already familiar with the most important features (after an hour or so) .
It´s comparatively cheap, simple, reliable and very likely more than enough what an Audio-DIYer ever will need.
So I stuck with this one and I´m still happy with it - I don`t need more.
BTW: the manual is good (and thick) but in German only (as far I know). Support is also very good - I had a question two times and always got an answer very promptly.
For this program an optional Post-Script-converter is avaiable (very recommended).
I can store those converted datas on Floppy-disk and bring it to a print shop. They have exposure-machines to print very high-resolution and quality exposure templates from those Postscript-files.
of course should read important not impotent - have fixed it
Since some years, I use this :
http://homepages.compuserve.de/ingwmaier/GEDDY6/geddy60.htm
Before I owned a CAD-program I was very afraid it`s too complicated for me.
After I tried a trial version (finally), I was surprised how easy this sort of stuff can be - without help of the manual (I`m one of those bad guys who don`t like to "read the ****ing manual" first
) I was able to make a very decent drawing and was already familiar with the most important features (after an hour or so) . It´s comparatively cheap, simple, reliable and very likely more than enough what an Audio-DIYer ever will need.
So I stuck with this one and I´m still happy with it - I don`t need more.
BTW: the manual is good (and thick) but in German only (as far I know). Support is also very good - I had a question two times and always got an answer very promptly.
For this program an optional Post-Script-converter is avaiable (very recommended).
I can store those converted datas on Floppy-disk and bring it to a print shop. They have exposure-machines to print very high-resolution and quality exposure templates from those Postscript-files.
of course should read important not impotent - have fixed it
I've been using Vutrax. The advantages are that it is free (the is a component count limit on the free version but it is very high), industrial strength (i.e. you can use it to build a commercial product), does not crash, works as documented.
Disadvantages: user interface is clunky (its a DOS program moved to Windows), while you can do evrthing you need or want, getting there is awkward sometimes., no simulation except SpiceAge in the free version. long learning curve, not many other people use it so it's hard to get advice except from the vendor.
Disadvantages: user interface is clunky (its a DOS program moved to Windows), while you can do evrthing you need or want, getting there is awkward sometimes., no simulation except SpiceAge in the free version. long learning curve, not many other people use it so it's hard to get advice except from the vendor.
OK, I've just installed Eagle, and tried to start a PCB layout.
My next project is a NOS DAC with a TDA1543.
But I can't find a model for this IC.
How do you guys do when you haven't the model? You create it for every chip which model doesn't exist?
Or is there a simplier way? (I was thinking about using another chip in the same format, sine it's for PCB design and not for simulation, it won't cause any problem IMO)
My next project is a NOS DAC with a TDA1543.
But I can't find a model for this IC.
How do you guys do when you haven't the model? You create it for every chip which model doesn't exist?
Or is there a simplier way? (I was thinking about using another chip in the same format, sine it's for PCB design and not for simulation, it won't cause any problem IMO)
Bricolo said:
Usually the package you want already exists, but the schematic symbol does not. The TDA1543 is not a standard part like an LM317 or a resistor! So, simply draw the symbol for the new part, then combine the symbol with the existing package. I'm assuming TDA1543 is DIP-28 or SOIC-20 or something along those lines. The packages definitely exist already.
I have gotten to where I can draw a new part in Eagle in a few minutes. Its quite easy once you learn the motions.
Jan, I agreeACD said:
At present I still use EPC4W 2.1. I have used EPC since DOS days. Then, I can remember having to go to lunch while it re-rendered (a 300mm x 300mm PCB on a 286) It's faster now, but still quirky.The trouble is that it's operational pholosophy is so different from any other PCB program that it makes learning new ones rather difficult..
________________________________________________
To answer the package question: I end up spending as much time making new Schematic and PCB symbols, as for drawing and laying out. It was the same when I used Orcad. These programs are great for digital families, but not for analogue consumer parts.
tschrama said:
I learned on Circuitmaker/Traxmaker, but you should be aware that is a dead end. What was just about to become the best software around for hobbyists was stifled when the guys who own Protel purchased it to let it die. This is a terrible shame because the program also had very intuitive simulation built in. Be aware though that the Spice version used seems very difficult to use - I never managed to make the one model I wanted and I tried for weeks.
The one feature you will sorely miss and which makes going to something like Eagle worth it (even though it is very non-windowesque) is the forward/backward linking between PCB layout and schematics.
Protel is probably insanely great and seems to have an insanely good library, but it also appeared to be insanely hard to use.
Bricolo said:I remember having tried eagle a year or two ago. Bad experience
Do all the softwares (including eagle) have models for classical DIY audio parts? (like regs, TDA154x DACs...)
Eagle sucks for Audio parts - you typically have to make them yourself. Once you made a couple, you will forgive the manufacturer for making some bad design choices in that arena.
Eagle currently seems to be gaining ground and version 4.11 is supposed to have the ability to copy devices and footprints between libraries. It is unfortunate that the libraries are so incomplete and that your first 2 weeks will be useless for other things than learning. Once you have made your libraries, you will find Eagle powerful and come to love it, especially if you came from Circuitmaker/Traxmaker due mostly to the aforementioned forward/reverse linking between schematic and PCB.
At some point we should probably consider making parts available here on DIY Audio for Eagle.
Petter
howdy,
my first program i ever learned was protel dxp -- learned it for a project for school, and yes it does take a long long time to learn, but the options are endless and i have had great results with it -- the library is huge, and even if you need to make your own parts (schematic wise), the footprint is there..
-chris
my first program i ever learned was protel dxp -- learned it for a project for school, and yes it does take a long long time to learn, but the options are endless and i have had great results with it -- the library is huge, and even if you need to make your own parts (schematic wise), the footprint is there..
-chris
What I don't like in Eagle 4.09 (haven't tried the newer versions) is the strange way of handling power signals. All nets with the same name will be connected and you cannot change it. If two opamps are defined in a library with Vpp and Vdd, they will be connected once added to the schematic no matter what you do. You'll have to re-define the part if you want an individual R-C lowpass for each supply pin (the program will still generate warnings anyway). Also, there is no native way for defining signal links to a different sheet of the schematic, only q&d work-arounds. Postscript output only works with vector fonts, so you cannot make good looking silk screens.
There are many more flaws which do matter to me and considering this I think the program is somewhat pricey.
Many people have been complaining about these issues in the Eagle forum, but the programmers refuse to work on them. (Copying parts from library to library and even deleting parts from a library was only added to the latest version and hasn't been available before!) To me it seems that the underlying structure of the software wasn't thought out well, and that new features had been added quick and dirty. I guess the source code must be a mess and the company is hesitating to re-work it from scratch. Just speculating, though.
There are many more flaws which do matter to me and considering this I think the program is somewhat pricey.
Many people have been complaining about these issues in the Eagle forum, but the programmers refuse to work on them. (Copying parts from library to library and even deleting parts from a library was only added to the latest version and hasn't been available before!) To me it seems that the underlying structure of the software wasn't thought out well, and that new features had been added quick and dirty. I guess the source code must be a mess and the company is hesitating to re-work it from scratch. Just speculating, though.
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