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Old 10th March 2013, 12:00 PM   #1
kiang is offline kiang  United Kingdom
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Default HELP required

Hi there All

was looking to find a kindly soul to guide me thro a tutorial on using speaker workshop with the wallin jig to measure and design crossovers
I think I have the necessary tools anyway but am having trouble adapting to this software
Am in leeds UK and willing to travel a reasonable distance but would like to see how it is done and have the opportunity to ask questions as I go


reply via PM if not comfortable posting

TA
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Old 10th March 2013, 12:48 PM   #2
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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I can almost help you. I am writing a quick start guide but for a slightly different tool set: SimpeS, Holm, LIMP,EDGE, and PSD-Lite. More of a beginners guide. I started doping this from my frustration learning SoundEasy. There was no clear outline. Tools like HOLM have lots of theory, and no how to. Some of the new ones have no docs yet at all.

As Dave is progressing on WinPCD which may be easier to start on. Jeff's EXCEL version is a bit intimidating until you work your way through it a few times.

My manual, ( 20 pages in WORD) is not ready to post time as a couple of the tools are still getting their kinks worked out.

I guess I could post pieces of it as I go along with the understanding it will change. I don;t really know how or where I will post it when I am done.
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Old 10th March 2013, 08:21 PM   #3
just another
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I'd recommend as a bare minimum reading through the Speaker Workshop manual http://home.exetel.com.au/wintermute.../sw_manual.zip Claudio's web site also has a good tutorial. Claudio Negro's home page, how to project and test a loudspeaker using Speaker Workshop

I've stopped using SW for acoustic and impedance measurements. But I still use the crossover modelling functionality. I use Holmimpulse for doing the FR measurements and REW for impedance export and import into SW. I was having difficulty getting consistent results with SW.

Certainly not going to be practical for any in person coaching with me being in Sydney

Tony.
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Old 10th March 2013, 08:42 PM   #4
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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REW? Don't know that one.
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Old 10th March 2013, 08:54 PM   #5
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room eq wizard (but it is much more than that) REW - Room EQ Wizard Home Page

I found that the latest woofers I bought the resonant freq was way off (something like 80hz instead of 60Hz)... figured it might be my measurements and decided to try out something other than SW to do the measurement, I tried ARTA, audioTester and REW. Arta didn't like my sound card much, AdioTester and REW were both good, REW was free so it won I got resonant freq of 60Hz with both REW and AudioTester.

Interestingly I then measured the impedance of my 10" Vifa's in their B/R enclosures, and the result I got from SW and the other two was consistent. So it is something about the 4" SB drivers that SW doesn't like. I thought it might be the very light cone, as I got similar high (compared to manufacturers spec) resonant freq on my tweeters.

Tony.
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Last edited by wintermute; 10th March 2013 at 09:01 PM. Reason: add reason why I chose REW.
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Old 10th March 2013, 10:11 PM   #6
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Thanks. I''ll check it out. As I have a Woofer Tester II, I use that, but I a looking for free impedance tools ( LIMP is great but expensive) to write up in my cheapskates beginners guide, which is just what the OP needs. Once you get through the process once, then they make a lot more sense. I am trying to help the gentleman doing SimpeS as it too is free.

We have identified several issues with accuracy. I was using a 10 Ohm load resistor as that's what SoundEasy suggested. I found the measurements way off. I now use 200. You can also have issues with the values if the resistors in the probes. There is a bit more on this over on the SimpeS thread I started.
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Old 10th March 2013, 10:18 PM   #7
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Unfortunately, the forum supporting Room EQ has had issues with users on Yahoo mail, so they no longer support any member with Yahoo. I can't register on their forum, and can't download their tools. I can understand frustration with spam, but no mail service is perfect. Yahoo does a pretty fair job, but they were hacked a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 10th March 2013, 11:27 PM   #8
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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What frustration. I actually have a Verizon FIOS account I have never used, but after 5 technical support people, they can't reset my password unless I know what date my service was installed. YEARS ago, how would I know? They have the computer records.

I may have a dormant Gmail account, but so far, all I get is automated replies saying the bogus data I had to enter to get the form to submit was bogus.

These folks need to have some lessons in customer support.
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Old 11th March 2013, 12:14 AM   #9
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I have been happy using Holm Impulse, though not a lot.
I made a summary a few years ago here: TAO of Tubes: Speaker measurement, Holm Impulse, Visual Analyser and Panasonic WM-61A
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Old 11th March 2013, 04:37 AM   #10
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Hi!
I have been using many programs with great success for measuring speakers and and audio equpiment.

This is the list of ones I use,

REW v5 Beta 10 as mentioned.
I am not sure if this beta 10 version can still be downloaded as it does allow you to get THD measurments.

HOLMSimpulse,
Great piece of software.

Audacity,
This is the very first software that I started using for frequency response measurement as it does have a decent FFT function built in to it.
It does full duplex as does most of thes programs.
You just create a chirp track and play it back while it is recording the sample from your microphone or out of your preamp,filter or poweramp.
Providing you use a buffer and proper voltage divider so that you don't blow the inputs to your sound card.
This is necessary for all of these programs to work.

Wave Spectra,
This is a simple and very fast Realtime FFT analyser and it is great for analyzing spots in your room realtime using noise signals.
It also makes very accurate FR graphs using the hold function and sweep tones.
It displays realtime THD as well and this program was the very first one I used to measure THD of my speaker drivers.
Note the input level must be as close to 0db you can get in order for the THD data to be accurate.

Visual Analyzer,
This is a super piece of software!
It has everything you would need wrapped up in one package.
Once it is learned it is very easy to use.
The VRLC function is the most important one that I just learned to use.

However there are several versions of this program and some seem glitchty and erratic and some don't, sometimes it will just work perfectly.
It seems to favor WinXP as far as stability.
Version VA2011xe Beta 0.3.2 is the one that I am using in Win7 and appears to be working good.

It does support 192Khz but only in 16bit mode with my hardware.
Occasionally I can get it to work in 24bit mode but it surely crashes every time.
This is confusing as some of the other programs work fine in 24bit/192Khz just fine on my machine.
Also this program is very CPU heavy when it is in VRLC mode and is very sluggish on some slower older machines as it is not multi-threaded and hogs everything that one core can do.
It is still a great program if you can tolerate any sluggishness and make it run properly.
Again this is only while using the VRLC function.

LMSBridge,
This is a RLC metering program and work great ever time I fire it up.
It doesn't have as much of a value resolution the VA offers but it does return the same results as VA.
It is a very straight forward program I can just start it up and go.
The only glitch I have found is that sometime I have found that using it after VA was used my results were off a great deal.
I think this has something to do with the clock of the sound system getting changed and doing a reboot solves this everytime.

SimpleS
This is a super Impedance plotting program I have just done some extensive testing of this program and it works very good.
However there seems to be issues with the newest versions and I am sure that are being dealt with.
I was using the very first version and the only issue I had was with not choosing the proper reference resistor.
If to low of a resistance is used then in loads down the output of the sound card and changes the reference signals level through out the sweep as the impedance of the part being tested changes.
A buffer can help take care of this issue
And if to high of a resistance is used it throws the sampled signal out of the sound cards linear dynamic range and makes it too low to be accurately sampled.

There are many other scope and signal generator programs out there but these are my favorite ones to use and seem to work the best.
I have a scope so this function is nill to me.
It is the FFT function that I have sought after.

Wave Spectra has a standalone signal generator that is very nice.
I also like the one that is on the Tolvan Data website as well as many more.
That would have to be a whole another list.
Lots of times I will just use a chirp track from Audacity or the signal generator that is built into Winlsd.
Depending on what I am doing and then again you can't help twisting your arm off on the dial of a standard standalone generator as well.

The key to making these programs work is using a properly buffered interface especially on the inputs to the sound card.
I have found that the impedance of the input of most sound cards change with frequency and this will throw your measured data way off.
Some of these programs may not even work at all without it being buffered as I have found out the hard way.

Here are some tips of how I built mine here,

A TEST JIG FOR FINDING ESL STEP-UP TRANSFORMER PARAMETERS

And for measurements of higher voltages such as poweramp outputs and stepup transformers and such here,

A TEST JIG FOR FINDING ESL STEP-UP TRANSFORMER PARAMETERS


All of these programs are free and work great!!!
The links to them can be found in this forum and I think I have reposted all of them recently in this forum in various threads and in the ESLDIY forum as well as they are all the center of my testing arsenal right now.

Enjoy !!!!

jer
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