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Old 1st October 2012, 11:07 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by schmeet View Post
Again. No application ever has Save or Save As greyed out when you open a new project.
Ok well I guess that just leaves me and Harris Technologies... I respect your choice to do it differently.

I also disable it when any value is removed. The reason I prefer to do it that way is to avoid an invalid entry being saved.
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Last edited by Silent Screamer; 1st October 2012 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 1st October 2012, 11:16 AM   #62
schmeet is offline schmeet  United Kingdom
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Ha. I haven't used BassBoxPro. (although I imagine when you start a new design the Save button is not greyed out?)

But I have used WinISD, Word, Excel, Publisher, Powerpoint, Bluebeam, AutoCAD, Notepad, Sketchup, Visual Studio, Photoshop. All of which follow the convention that when you start a new document you can click save and it has the same function as save as.
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Old 1st October 2012, 11:38 AM   #63
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You start with the default project loaded. I don't see an advantage to having nothing loaded, it just means there will be loads of Null errors that need dealing with until the user has entered something into every box.
Surely this means the chance of error is high by leaving something in the default boxes that need to be changed? A more fail safe method might be to open with a blank project and highlight the minimum data boxes that need to be filled in to get a proper result. And couldn't null errors be suppressed until that minimum amount of data had been entered?
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Old 1st October 2012, 12:31 PM   #64
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Surely this means the chance of error is high by leaving something in the default boxes that need to be changed? A more fail safe method might be to open with a blank project and highlight the minimum data boxes that need to be filled in to get a proper result. And couldn't null errors be suppressed until that minimum amount of data had been entered?
There are several different approaches and depending on the programmer and how they like to handle errors.

Like you I prefer to start with a clean slate, and either load the values or add them to blank boxes, but this approach generally means you need to be more creative with the load up code.

By loading default values you don't have to worry about how to deal with a null value error. I prefer to control the buttons through enabling and disabling them once each value has been validated and all mandatory fields are filled.

If you validate the entry as it is being entered you don't have to check it at save time, again no right and wrong ways, just personal preferences.
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Old 1st October 2012, 12:48 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Silent Screamer View Post
By loading default values you don't have to worry about how to deal with a null value error.
Unless of course someone manually alters the config files in WordPad (to save time) which is common in this sort of app, you can wind up with this problem.
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Old 1st October 2012, 01:25 PM   #66
schmeet is offline schmeet  United Kingdom
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All this stuff is, of course, possible and will eventually get done. But, as previously mentioned, there is very little error checking at the moment.

I also hear what is being said about starting with no values entered. but surely things like amplifier input value would be really annoying if you had to go in and enter 1w each time? i don't see an advantage to having nothing entered to start with.

I feel it is more intuitive to start of with something that at least works, and then the user changes the values to suit their design...

Either way, thanks for the suggestions, I will bear it in mind and see what others think. In the mean time i will focus on some other things (like undo and comparisons...)

Pete
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Old 1st October 2012, 02:37 PM   #67
schmeet is offline schmeet  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Silent Screamer View Post
Unless of course someone manually alters the config files in WordPad (to save time) which is common in this sort of app, you can wind up with this problem.
SS. Did you do this by altering the .tlp project file and then opening it?

I guess I should add a bit of error checking at this point...
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Old 1st October 2012, 06:11 PM   #68
schmeet is offline schmeet  United Kingdom
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Update to 2.7 has 1 step Undo/Redo functionality.
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Old 1st October 2012, 11:44 PM   #69
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Yeah probably one of the hardest parts of writing code is getting the balance right between getting code written, and building in error checking in the early stages of an app.
I personally don’t see anything wrong with loading a few non variable defaults (from a separate config file) when a new profile is created, it saves time and it can help a newbie like myself with parameters I may not know.
But for me the sticking point is as a newbie when I fire up the app and there are lines and charts everywhere I found that very off putting. For someone who knows what they are looking at they may see it as a help, but to me I am thinking how do I get back to a blank screen to enter my data.
A newbie needs to see change take place to understand what their changes do. Even having to load a default file you know what type of file you opened for the screen to suddenly be populated.
This is purely a user preference the same way some people like to use tools that work from a command line while others like a GUI, just saying as a novice I found it very much in my face even though the intention is for it to help.

To generate the error… I changed some parameters of the default driver and saved it as a different driver name (At the time I couldn’t see a new project button to guide me through the creation process) I figured that must be how you create a new record.
I didn’t alter all of the values in the window, as I prefer to use WordPad to enter data. Since the driver parameters you want to enter are most likely in a document and not in your head, it is often quicker to just cut and paste the value into a text document.
I don’t think I would be the only one who does this as a quicker way to add data.

i.e.
Fs = 26.5
Bl = 23.8

Copying the file, renaming it and cut and pasting the data is quicker than finding the right box on the screen and you don’t have to fight with the app that is trying to change your values on you.
But as you can see I deliberately generated the error by adding an extra decimal point to see if you were error checking on load, and to see if it would give me chance to change the value should it not like it. (exception handling)
When I write an app I try to make it absolutely fool proof, but there is no app too secure for a talented fool

Agree need to focus on getting some function in the app and chase the holes later.
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Old 2nd October 2012, 06:03 AM   #70
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When I write an app I try to make it absolutely fool proof, but there is no app too secure for a talented fool.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."

... From 'Mostly Harmless' by Douglas Adams (1992) ...

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