Finite Element Method Magnetics (FEMM)

Edmond Stuart · 10th April 2012, 07:55 AM

Hi,

Has anybody used FEMM for analyzing magnetic radiation and induction of PCB traces? (see: Finite Element Method Magnetics: HomePage)

Cheers,
E.

godfrey · 10th April 2012, 08:25 AM

I've played with it. It's a nice program but I don't think it can do what you suggest here. The problem is it can't do three dimensional layouts. You're limited to 2D layouts which are either infinitely deep, or rotated about an axis.

It's ideal for loudspeaker magnetic circuit design though, either long ribbons or traditional moving coil. Although not hinted at in the name, it can also model electrostatics, so may be useful for ESL analysis / design.

Edmond Stuart · 08:47 AM

Hi Godfrey,

>but I don't think it can do what you suggest here
I was afraid of that already. Thanks for commenting.
BTW, do you know of another tool (preferable shareware) that can do the job?

Cheers,
E.

edit:
>It's a nice program
Indeed. I've used it once for modeling an e-bike hub motor.

godfrey · 10th April 2012, 09:04 AM

No, but then again I haven't looked.

IMHO, it should be possible and not too computationally intensive if one allows the simplification of only requiring a 2D layout which is arbitrarily shallow (rather than infinitely deep, as with FEMM). Full 3D modeling would likely be a CPU killer. OTOH, sometimes it's worth waiting half an hour for the results.

I wonder if there isn't suitable software used in other fields e.g. antenna design / modeling.

RJM1 · 10th April 2012, 09:10 AM

Sonnet Lite, It's free and might do what you want.
Sonnet Lite

Edmond Stuart · 10th April 2012, 09:21 AM

Hi RJM1,

Thanks! I'll have a look at it.
But what about this limitation: 'to analyze their predominantly planar high-frequency designs from 1 MHz through several THz'
Seems not suitable for audio frequencies

Cheers,
E.

RJM1 · 10th April 2012, 09:36 AM

That's what the " might " in my response was about.I used the full version and Microwave Office In my last job for microwave PC board design.As I remember you could set the frequency start and stop points from 0 Hz to 1Thz.

marce · 12th April 2012, 12:19 PM

Would you use the info for EMC and signal integrity?
A lot of the top packages have addons that do this sort of thing or programs such as COSMOSworks. The simulations can take some time, and generaly only get used for very speed interfaces or GHz RF design, and even then not always, people still like to risk it using rules of thumb.

Jakob2 · 14th April 2012, 05:51 PM

Elmer might be the right tool box:

Elmer — CSC

Edmond Stuart · 16th April 2012, 06:19 AM

Thanks a lot Jakob. I will have a look at it.

Cheers,
E.

10th April 2012, 07:55 AM	#1
Edmond Stuart diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Amsterdam	Finite Element Method Magnetics (FEMM) Hi, Has anybody used FEMM for analyzing magnetic radiation and induction of PCB traces? (see: Finite Element Method Magnetics: HomePage) Cheers, E. __________________ Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht, zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk)

10th April 2012, 08:42 AM	#3
Edmond Stuart diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Amsterdam	Hi Godfrey, >but I don't think it can do what you suggest here I was afraid of that already. Thanks for commenting. BTW, do you know of another tool (preferable shareware) that can do the job? Cheers, E. edit: >It's a nice program Indeed. I've used it once for modeling an e-bike hub motor. __________________ Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht, zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk) Last edited by Edmond Stuart; 10th April 2012 at 08:47 AM.

10th April 2012, 09:21 AM	#6
Edmond Stuart diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Amsterdam	Hi RJM1, Thanks! I'll have a look at it. But what about this limitation: 'to analyze their predominantly planar high-frequency designs from 1 MHz through several THz' Seems not suitable for audio frequencies Cheers, E. __________________ Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht, zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk)

16th April 2012, 06:19 AM	#10
Edmond Stuart diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Amsterdam	Thanks a lot Jakob. I will have a look at it. Cheers, E. __________________ Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht, zal meer dan lijf en goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk)

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10th April 2012, 08:25 AM	#2
godfrey diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Cape Town	I've played with it. It's a nice program but I don't think it can do what you suggest here. The problem is it can't do three dimensional layouts. You're limited to 2D layouts which are either infinitely deep, or rotated about an axis. It's ideal for loudspeaker magnetic circuit design though, either long ribbons or traditional moving coil. Although not hinted at in the name, it can also model electrostatics, so may be useful for ESL analysis / design.

10th April 2012, 09:04 AM	#4
godfrey diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Cape Town	No, but then again I haven't looked. IMHO, it should be possible and not too computationally intensive if one allows the simplification of only requiring a 2D layout which is arbitrarily shallow (rather than infinitely deep, as with FEMM). Full 3D modeling would likely be a CPU killer. OTOH, sometimes it's worth waiting half an hour for the results. I wonder if there isn't suitable software used in other fields e.g. antenna design / modeling.

10th April 2012, 09:10 AM	#5
RJM1 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Titusville, Fl.	Sonnet Lite, It's free and might do what you want. Sonnet Lite

10th April 2012, 09:36 AM	#7
RJM1 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Titusville, Fl.	That's what the " might " in my response was about.I used the full version and Microwave Office In my last job for microwave PC board design.As I remember you could set the frequency start and stop points from 0 Hz to 1Thz.

12th April 2012, 12:19 PM	#8
marce diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Blackburn, Lancs	Would you use the info for EMC and signal integrity? A lot of the top packages have addons that do this sort of thing or programs such as COSMOSworks. The simulations can take some time, and generaly only get used for very speed interfaces or GHz RF design, and even then not always, people still like to risk it using rules of thumb.

14th April 2012, 05:51 PM	#9
Jakob2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: germany	Elmer might be the right tool box: Elmer — CSC

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