spice models for 2sa970/2sc2240?

[bmcevers]

I was wondering if anybody has working (good) spice models for the Toshiba 2sa970/2sc2240 complementary small signal transistors. If somebody has them, could you please post them under this thread.

Thank-You in advance,

 

[andy_c]

Hi,

Here's what I have. See my email for more info.

.model Q2sa970 PNP(Is=465.4f Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=57 Bf=407.6 Ise=4.683p Ne=2.051
+ Ikf=.3998 Nk=1.192 Xtb=1.5 Var=100 Br=1 Isc=465.4f Nc=1.048
+ Ikr=6.032 Rc=2.343 Cjc=11.59p Mjc=.4014 Vjc=1.155 Fc=.5 Cje=5p
+ Mje=.3333 Vje=.75 Tr=10n Tf=1.252n Itf=1 Xtf=0 Vtf=10)

.model Q2sc2240 NPN(Is=99.13f Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=422.2 Bf=352.8 Ise=1.179p
+ Ne=1.782 Ikf=.4704 Nk=.9631 Xtb=1.5 Var=100 Br=1.663 Isc=555.1p
+ Nc=1.796 Ikr=5.85 Rc=.2032 Cjc=7.561p Mjc=.2472 Vjc=.3905 Fc=.5
+ Cje=5p Mje=.3333 Vje=.75 Tr=10n Tf=1.295n Itf=1 Xtf=0 Vtf=10)

 

[bocka]

my 2SC2240 model from Toshiba

.model Q2SC2240 NPN(Is=1.41f Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Vaf=100 Bf=310 Ne=1.5 Ise=0
+ Ikf=70m Xtb=1.5 Br=.8893 Nc=2 Isc=0 Ikr=0 Rc=30 Cjc=6.878p
+ Mjc=.2725 Vjc=.75 Fc=.5 Cje=5p Mje=.3333 Vje=.75 Tr=10n
+ Tf=1.276n Itf=0 Vtf=0 Xtf=0)
* TOSHIBA 90-01-29 creation

 

[capslock]

Hey,

that's really interesting. The Toshiba model is substantially different in some parameters. Where did you find it? Do you have other Toshiba, Sanyo, Sanken manufacturer models?

Eric

 

[bocka]

Hi Eric,

unfortunately not These Toshiba models are on the net some years ago. If you look on the date code you can see this Toshiba model is some years old maybe parameters are not the actual ones.

 

[Netlist]

At the risk of being caught by Pfred , here some more (and different) parameters:

2SC2240:

IS 9.98557F
BF 444.22
NF 965.739M
VAF 439.144
IKF 99.567M
ISE 6.48962F
NE 1.29179
BR 425.865M
NR 1
VAR 0
IKR 954.972
ISC 539.648P
NC 2
NK 500M
ISS 0
NS 1
RE 0
RB 0
RBM 0
IRB 0
RC 168.128M
CJE 2P
VJE 750M
MJE 500M
CJC 11.7089P
VJC 750.026M
MJC 499.123M
XCJC 1
CJS 0
VJS 750M
MJS 0
FC 500M
TF 1.41635N
XTF 499.995M
VTF 10
ITF 10.055M
PTF 0
TR 10N
EG 1.11
XTB 0
XTI 3
KF 0
AF 1

2SA970:

IS 9.9855F
BF 477.115
NF 965.739M
VAF 64.7
IKF 116.959M
ISE 2.13187F
NE 1.27276
BR 385.069M
NR 1
VAR 0
IKR 308.018
ISC 13.4194P
NC 2
NK 500M
ISS 0
NS 1
RE 0
RB 0
RBM 0
IRB 0
RC 7.03858
CJE 2P
VJE 750M
MJE 500M
CJC 19.119P
VJC 749.982M
MJC 498.685M
XCJC 1
CJS 0
VJS 750M
MJS 0
FC 500M
TF 1.49138N
XTF 500M
VTF 10
ITF 10.0655M
PTF 0
TR 10N
EG 1.11
XTB 0
XTI 3
KF 0
AF 1

Datasheets here:
http://www.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/td...Transistors/en_20030326_2SC2240_datasheet.pdf
and
http://www.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/td..._Transistors/en_20030325_2SA970_datasheet.pdf

Greetings
/Hugo

 

[Netlist]

Even more for the 2SC2240:

.MODEL 2sc2240 NPN
+ IS=5.908e-015 NF=1.000e+000 ISE=6.239e-017
+ NE = 1.061e+000 BF = 8.319e+002 BR = 1.000e+000
+ IKF = 1.500e-001 VAF = 4.384e+002 VAR = 2.000e+001
+ EG = 1.110e+000 XTI = 3.000e+000 XTB = 0.000e+000
+ RC = 6.000e-001 RB = 7.500e-001 RE = 0.000e+000
+ CJE = 2.500e-011 MJE = 1.740e-001 VJE = 1.250e-001
+ CJC = 5.371e-012

/Hugo

 

[bmcevers]

I would like to thank everybody for their reply's. It is much appreciated.

Sincerely,

Brannon

 

[capslock]

build & measure rather than model...

 

[bmcevers]

build than measure?

Capslock,

I understand your view, but the reality is that simulation, although not perfect, is a valuable time saving tool. I don't know any competent modern engineers that don't utilize simulation if not only to validate their design principles

 

[capslock]

To check a topology and component values, simulation is invaluable.

Given the spread of the models given here (one full order of magnitude for some parameters!!), I wonder if simulation is any good to identify the most suitable transistor. I would not be surprised if various models for the same transistor show more variation than two transistors with only vaguely similar specs...

 

[blueskynis]

This is from multisim 7 simulation program:


################## Model Data Report ##################

.MODEL 2sc2240 NPN
+ IS=5.908e-015 NF=1.000e+000 ISE=6.239e-017
+ NE = 1.061e+000 BF = 8.319e+002 BR = 1.000e+000
+ IKF = 1.500e-001 VAF = 4.384e+002 VAR = 2.000e+001
+ EG = 1.110e+000 XTI = 3.000e+000 XTB = 0.000e+000
+ RC = 6.000e-001 RB = 7.500e-001 RE = 0.000e+000
+ CJE = 2.500e-011 MJE = 1.740e-001 VJE = 1.250e-001
+ CJC = 5.371e-012
============= Model template =================
q%p %tC %tB %tE %m

 

[lineup]

so which one model do i use
for these toshiba: 2SC2240 and 2SA970
excellent transistors for input stage in audio amplifier

that they can take 120 Volt ... is another feature

andy_c what do you recommend
thanks

 

[andy_c]

Hi lineup,

Sorry I missed this thread earlier.

Evaluating SPICE models in a thorough way is almost as time consuming as creating a new one from scratch. Because of the large number of different device types available, and the fact that a given device may have several different models depending on the source, time doesn't permit me to investigate these models whenever anyone has a question about them.

My approach has been that if I'm working on a project and the models for the devices I plan to use are either not available or too critical to just rely on the device or simulator vendor's model, I'll create one myself. After I do this and am satisfied with the results, I share every model either here or on my web pages. If I thoroughly investigated every model anyone has a question about, I'd never have time for any projects.

This is one of the downsides of SPICE in my view - the tendency to get bogged down in analysis of various kinds.

 

[lineup]

Hi lineup,
---
My approach has been that if I'm working on a project and the models for the devices I plan to use are either not available or too critical to just rely on the device or simulator vendor's model,
I'll create one myself.
After I do this and am satisfied with the results, I share every model either here or on my web pages.

thanks Andy

 

[garybdmd]

I was looking at the Boss Ds-1 distortion pedal for the guitar. It uses this 2sc2240 transistor. In that circuit, there is an attached emitter resistor (Re) used which is 22 ohms.

In some of the models listed above, the re "little re" or inherent resistance of the transistors emitter is not listed or listed as 0 ohms. Normally this would not be a problem since the external emitter ("big Re") resistor used is much greater than the re.

So my thought was to change the above models to include an re of the transistor to something like 25 or 26.

In some circuits where Re and re are about the same order of magnitude, this can make a significant difference.

In the boss Ds-1 circuit simulation, including re as 25 would probably approximately double the input impedance and lower the cutoff frequency by 1/2.

Anyhow, I noticed the cutoff frequency being wrong when I simulated my circuit and I think making re in the transistor model equal to 0 ohms was the problem.