Hello, I am trying to make my 1st ever PCB layout. I am using Eagle PCB software, the free demo version. Having read a few threads here at diyaudio.com,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12485&highlight=board+manufacturing
I am worried that this software will not output files that can be used by pcb manufacturers, gerber files? Why not, what good are they if they can't be used to make a pcb?
Anyway, you all are experts on this stuff. My goal is to design a pretty simpile pcb and send out electronic files to get the boards made. Any recommendations on software OR ALSO pcb manuf. houses? I live in Southern California, USA. I don't want to waste a ton of time coming up with a circuit and be unable to have it put on a board...obviously!
thanks
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12485&highlight=board+manufacturing
I am worried that this software will not output files that can be used by pcb manufacturers, gerber files? Why not, what good are they if they can't be used to make a pcb?
Anyway, you all are experts on this stuff. My goal is to design a pretty simpile pcb and send out electronic files to get the boards made. Any recommendations on software OR ALSO pcb manuf. houses? I live in Southern California, USA. I don't want to waste a ton of time coming up with a circuit and be unable to have it put on a board...obviously!
thanks
The question relates to CAM processing which Eagle does. I have not in fact been able to verify that CircuitMaker can do the same .... (i.e it does SOME CAM stuff, but it is enough for manufacturers? I hope so, but am still unsure)
Re local printing: I suggest file: Print ...
Eagle has a kind of crummy interface, but I have had the chance to play with it and am starting to like it, mostly because of the tight integration between schematic and layout - this can save you a lot of time if you make changes after the fact. There are some quirks to the program, and it is not very Windows like and intuitive if you are into that sort of thing (like me). In that regard, CircuitMaker appears to be easier to start with.
Petter
Re local printing: I suggest file: Print ...
Eagle has a kind of crummy interface, but I have had the chance to play with it and am starting to like it, mostly because of the tight integration between schematic and layout - this can save you a lot of time if you make changes after the fact. There are some quirks to the program, and it is not very Windows like and intuitive if you are into that sort of thing (like me). In that regard, CircuitMaker appears to be easier to start with.
Petter
I use this professional software,
I prefer it over Protel, PAD2000, AutoCAD, etc.
http://www.mentor.com/pads/powerpcb/
but for the home user, it's too expensive.to buy...
It requires a hardware key or server
license too..
If you try to run the software with
no license, it operates in demo mode
which allows you to do small jobs
and output gerbers !
The trick is to get a copy of the software and run demo mode.
Perhaps a call to sales ?
*********
In demo mode, your limits are as follows.
Parts - 30
Nets - 65
Connections - 150
Route Segments - 47
Part Decals - 56
Terminals - 207
*********
Recently, I figured out a way to
get more out of this software
in demo mode - /secret
I prefer it over Protel, PAD2000, AutoCAD, etc.
http://www.mentor.com/pads/powerpcb/
but for the home user, it's too expensive.to buy...
It requires a hardware key or server
license too..
If you try to run the software with
no license, it operates in demo mode
which allows you to do small jobs
and output gerbers !
The trick is to get a copy of the software and run demo mode.
Perhaps a call to sales ?
*********
In demo mode, your limits are as follows.
Parts - 30
Nets - 65
Connections - 150
Route Segments - 47
Part Decals - 56
Terminals - 207
*********
Recently, I figured out a way to
get more out of this software
in demo mode - /secret
Eagle does have several problems when producing Gerber files. I do several operations on the files to make them compatible with the requirements of my board house. Especially the output of the drill file is useless.
But I'm still using it, so it must be good enough. The standard parts library is enormous.
But I'm still using it, so it must be good enough. The standard parts library is enormous.
Library additions....
I've also been plyaying with the demo version of Eagle, and it looks very promising.
I like the vast libraries, and have had a sift through the updated library components on their website.
I couldn't find the LM3875T(F) or CS8412 models anywhere - google, surprisingly, didn't throw any leads up either.
Not wishing to hijack the thread, but are there any other sources for Eagle mods???
As you may have guessed, I would like to make my own nonos DAC and Gainclone boards.
All the best
Jon
I've also been plyaying with the demo version of Eagle, and it looks very promising.
I like the vast libraries, and have had a sift through the updated library components on their website.
I couldn't find the LM3875T(F) or CS8412 models anywhere - google, surprisingly, didn't throw any leads up either.
Not wishing to hijack the thread, but are there any other sources for Eagle mods???
As you may have guessed, I would like to make my own nonos DAC and Gainclone boards.
All the best
Jon
When I looked at Eagle, I quickly realized that they had vast libraries, but that they were in no way complete.
Creating new devices is not all that hard (once you get used to it). The deal with Eagle and others is that you can't really use them effectively until you have invested considereable time with libraries.
It surprises me that Cadsoft has not used this very point to their advantage. The "additional devices" on their website does not appear to be of much use either.
Petter
Creating new devices is not all that hard (once you get used to it). The deal with Eagle and others is that you can't really use them effectively until you have invested considereable time with libraries.
It surprises me that Cadsoft has not used this very point to their advantage. The "additional devices" on their website does not appear to be of much use either.
Petter
I'm suprised by that comment.
The drill file is in a totally standard NC drill format and every board house I've used accepts it fine.
Equally the same applies for the Gerbers - what problems have you experienced - there's a lot fo functionality buried inside Eagle, that isn't always obvious or immediately intuitive?
Non-standard interface aside, it's the best I've used in a readily available package, the downside (and the reason I no longer use it) is the board-area based licensing model.
For beginners stay away from Pads / PowerPCB - it's powerful, but VERY complicated and has a worse interface to Eagle, you will find a steep learning curve.
Andy.
P.S. As Petter says, you will invest most of your time in dealing with the libraries, the layout stuff is easy in comparison, and usually intuitive.
LM3875 Model??
Perhaps we can make our own library of DIYaudio parts that are the most common??
I must admit that, as a real newbie to thing electrical, it may be a bit of a struggle, I will get there eventually.
Any tips for how to create library objects?? If it's a case of inputting in datasheet info, I'm sure I can cope with that.....
All the best
Jon
Perhaps we can make our own library of DIYaudio parts that are the most common??
I must admit that, as a real newbie to thing electrical, it may be a bit of a struggle, I will get there eventually.
Any tips for how to create library objects?? If it's a case of inputting in datasheet info, I'm sure I can cope with that.....
All the best
Jon
It seems to be a basic principle that no mare how large a part library a Schematic-capture/ pcb-layout/spice-simulator has, it will never have one or two of the components you absolutely must have. Consequently, one of the first things I check out is how easy is it to createw new parts and symbols and have them correctly associated woth one another.
For beginners stay away from Pads / PowerPCB - it's powerful, but VERY complicated and has a worse interface to Eagle, you will find a steep learning curve.
**************************
it's powerful
Yep.....
VERY complicated
I find it very easy to use, I tried
out all the other software packages,
nothing was as easy as PowerPCB,
but I do admit the decal editor has
room to improve.
worse interface to Eagle
I can't find a better interface than
PowerPCB.
Which PowerPCB version have you
tried? old stuff or new stuff ?
You should try out the new 5.x Blazerouter, 100 times better
than 4.x, I prefer it over the legacy
Specctra router.
PowerPCB
I confess I struggle with this, I have V4.x, IIRC. The whole interface is so non-standard, in both the schematic capture and the layout side of things. Even zooming on a schematic presents a mental challenge the first time you try it
The printing (CAM) dialogue is bewildering for new users and as for symbol creation...
Blazerouter
I never use an autorouter as most of my work is analogue, and all autorouters suck for critical audio work.
They are v. useful for checking routability, but I always route by hand, analogue (audio) is too critical to let an autorouter loose on it.
As I said though, it is very powerful, but for most analogue stuff 90% of it's functionality is not required and gets in the way, IMHO.
Eagle is a remarkable package and contains useful functionality that I miss in my new package, but that board-area based licensing is a BIG problem to me, making the package prohibitively expensive for my needs.
Andy.
I confess I struggle with this, I have V4.x, IIRC. The whole interface is so non-standard, in both the schematic capture and the layout side of things. Even zooming on a schematic presents a mental challenge the first time you try it
The printing (CAM) dialogue is bewildering for new users and as for symbol creation...
Blazerouter
I never use an autorouter as most of my work is analogue, and all autorouters suck for critical audio work.
They are v. useful for checking routability, but I always route by hand, analogue (audio) is too critical to let an autorouter loose on it.
As I said though, it is very powerful, but for most analogue stuff 90% of it's functionality is not required and gets in the way, IMHO.
Eagle is a remarkable package and contains useful functionality that I miss in my new package, but that board-area based licensing is a BIG problem to me, making the package prohibitively expensive for my needs.
Andy.
Re: PowerPCB
I confess I struggle with this, I have V4.x, IIRC. The whole interface is so non-standard, in both the schematic capture and the layout side of things.
Are you using PowerLogic schematic capture? There's no
schematic capture within PowerPCB, they want to sell
another software package /hehe PowerLogic is ok, I'd
rather not use it. Actually, I connect all my nets by hand
for small jobs or create a text net list.. which is easy to do.
Even zooming on a schematic presents a mental challenge the first time you try it
PgUp key (zoom in)
PgDn key (zoom out)
Ins key (pan image to mouse pointer), if you don't want to use
windows scrolls /hehe
I use alot of hotkeys and modeless commands, perhaps that is why I like it so much.
The printing (CAM) dialogue is bewildering for new users
There is alot of "buttons" to select options, but it gives you flexibility.
and as for symbol creation...
The Decal Editor does need work, but overall it has
a good decal wizard utility good for high pin count
package creation.
Blazerouter
I never use an autorouter as most of my work is analogue, and all autorouters suck for critical audio work.
yeah, no need for autorouters in audio, but for digital work with
3000 pins to route on 28 layer boards, it's interesting to
see the router do this, typically on a fast computer, it's
an overnight job at minimum. /funny stuff. I can't imagine
doing this by hand. man vs. machine
The industry doesn't like autorouters because the nets
are "messy", but more and more they are seeing the potential.
We tested two jobs, one that looked beautiful, a hand routed
high pin cout job. The same job ran on the auto-router and
looks liked a mess. When doing board simulation for crosstalk,
the hand-routed "perty" board failed crosstalk by huge margin,
the board was not useable, but hey, it's looks perty. The autorouter's random approach to routing won the prize in
signal integrity, but the routing looks like poo, a rats nest. /hehe
Eagle is a remarkable package and contains useful functionality
I guess it boils down to user interface. If one doesn't know it,
it won't work for them. I downloaded Eagle yesterday to check
it out and couldn't find my way around. /LOL
I confess I struggle with this, I have V4.x, IIRC. The whole interface is so non-standard, in both the schematic capture and the layout side of things.
Are you using PowerLogic schematic capture? There's no
schematic capture within PowerPCB, they want to sell
another software package /hehe PowerLogic is ok, I'd
rather not use it. Actually, I connect all my nets by hand
for small jobs or create a text net list.. which is easy to do.
Even zooming on a schematic presents a mental challenge the first time you try it
PgUp key (zoom in)
PgDn key (zoom out)
Ins key (pan image to mouse pointer), if you don't want to use
windows scrolls /hehe
I use alot of hotkeys and modeless commands, perhaps that is why I like it so much.
The printing (CAM) dialogue is bewildering for new users
There is alot of "buttons" to select options, but it gives you flexibility.
and as for symbol creation...
The Decal Editor does need work, but overall it has
a good decal wizard utility good for high pin count
package creation.
Blazerouter
I never use an autorouter as most of my work is analogue, and all autorouters suck for critical audio work.
yeah, no need for autorouters in audio, but for digital work with
3000 pins to route on 28 layer boards, it's interesting to
see the router do this, typically on a fast computer, it's
an overnight job at minimum. /funny stuff. I can't imagine
doing this by hand. man vs. machine
The industry doesn't like autorouters because the nets
are "messy", but more and more they are seeing the potential.
We tested two jobs, one that looked beautiful, a hand routed
high pin cout job. The same job ran on the auto-router and
looks liked a mess. When doing board simulation for crosstalk,
the hand-routed "perty" board failed crosstalk by huge margin,
the board was not useable, but hey, it's looks perty. The autorouter's random approach to routing won the prize in
signal integrity, but the routing looks like poo, a rats nest. /hehe
Eagle is a remarkable package and contains useful functionality
I guess it boils down to user interface. If one doesn't know it,
it won't work for them. I downloaded Eagle yesterday to check
it out and couldn't find my way around. /LOL
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