What is the best PCB Software for zero Dollars?
My God, that was and still is the hardest question to answer.
Why?
Because..., there are so many out there. And we got to start saving our money for the "big depression" that is on its way.
So we must eliminate the ones that do not fit.
Remember, zero dollars, means, zero dollars. And we want as much as we can get for "zero dollars".
Trial, demo, limited features, and non-profit PCB software packages are excluded. Because they restrict you as to what you can and can not do.
What we want is a PCB Software Package that can take us from the drawing board to the finish product. And we can sell it commercially, having a gerber file for manufacture. Plus it must be free.
I have found the following PCB Software Packages, using Windows OS.
a> Free PCB-Unlimited
b> Tiny Cad-Unlimited
c> ZenitPCB (only 800 pins, but free and export gerber files and you can use it commercially)
d> KiCad-Unlimited
e> Autotrax-Unlimited
f> Easytrax-Unlimited
g> QuickRoute 3.6Pro/ using QuickRoute 4.0 Pro libraries. Unlimted!!!!!!
h> Vutrax (the makers of Vutrax does have a package that is limited to only 256 pins. But you can use it to make gerber files and use it commercially as well) for free. Great bunch of guys, they are!
i> Ranger 2-Unlimited
That leaves just one, that I have a question mark against. PC Elegance.
It is limited to 200 pins, and it makes gerber files. I saw no restrictions on its commercial use. So I need the assistance of someone who uses it. In telling me if it can be used commercially, for free.
I included PCB Elecgance and Vutrax, for a reason.
When electrical CAD's first appearred, it was in the mid and late 1970's and early 1980's. Some of us will still remember the computers we used by then. The Timex/Sinclaire, the early Zenith computers, and Osborn's.
They were 3.2k, 16k, and 32k memory computers. Their pin loads were 200 to 256 pin max. We use to design our aircraft electronics boards with them.Those computers used OS/360 and CP/M operating systems.
In those days, we used only transistors, and very few IC's. We limited our IC's pieces to 8 and 14 pins. No more than 4 pieces. Besides, most of the IC's were special units. They were TO-10 cans.
So if this old man miss some "free" PCB Software Package, let me know.
Take Care
Ivey
My God, that was and still is the hardest question to answer.
Why?
Because..., there are so many out there. And we got to start saving our money for the "big depression" that is on its way.
So we must eliminate the ones that do not fit.
Remember, zero dollars, means, zero dollars. And we want as much as we can get for "zero dollars".
Trial, demo, limited features, and non-profit PCB software packages are excluded. Because they restrict you as to what you can and can not do.
What we want is a PCB Software Package that can take us from the drawing board to the finish product. And we can sell it commercially, having a gerber file for manufacture. Plus it must be free.
I have found the following PCB Software Packages, using Windows OS.
a> Free PCB-Unlimited
b> Tiny Cad-Unlimited
c> ZenitPCB (only 800 pins, but free and export gerber files and you can use it commercially)
d> KiCad-Unlimited
e> Autotrax-Unlimited
f> Easytrax-Unlimited
g> QuickRoute 3.6Pro/ using QuickRoute 4.0 Pro libraries. Unlimted!!!!!!
h> Vutrax (the makers of Vutrax does have a package that is limited to only 256 pins. But you can use it to make gerber files and use it commercially as well) for free. Great bunch of guys, they are!
i> Ranger 2-Unlimited
That leaves just one, that I have a question mark against. PC Elegance.
It is limited to 200 pins, and it makes gerber files. I saw no restrictions on its commercial use. So I need the assistance of someone who uses it. In telling me if it can be used commercially, for free.
I included PCB Elecgance and Vutrax, for a reason.
When electrical CAD's first appearred, it was in the mid and late 1970's and early 1980's. Some of us will still remember the computers we used by then. The Timex/Sinclaire, the early Zenith computers, and Osborn's.
They were 3.2k, 16k, and 32k memory computers. Their pin loads were 200 to 256 pin max. We use to design our aircraft electronics boards with them.Those computers used OS/360 and CP/M operating systems.
In those days, we used only transistors, and very few IC's. We limited our IC's pieces to 8 and 14 pins. No more than 4 pieces. Besides, most of the IC's were special units. They were TO-10 cans.
So if this old man miss some "free" PCB Software Package, let me know.
Take Care
Ivey
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I will do, they has some humorous posters late 80s, probably by the same artist that did the origion Tom Sharpe books.
It was a surprise to find they are still going, I use to help a friend of mine out in his photoplotting bussiness just for Vutrax designs around 89/90, sat around a Gerber photoplotter with a few beers waiting to change the apperture disk, life seemed less hectic then.
Cheers
Marc
It was a surprise to find they are still going, I use to help a friend of mine out in his photoplotting bussiness just for Vutrax designs around 89/90, sat around a Gerber photoplotter with a few beers waiting to change the apperture disk, life seemed less hectic then.
Cheers
Marc
Eagle is limited to 2 layers, small board area and non-profit use for the free version
but I have paid for the "Standard" level upgrade because I did quickly "get" the UI and even my hobby time is worth some money to avoid project killing frustration with dead ends, gotchas, and hand making every part needed as with some "free" software
but I have paid for the "Standard" level upgrade because I did quickly "get" the UI and even my hobby time is worth some money to avoid project killing frustration with dead ends, gotchas, and hand making every part needed as with some "free" software
for linux, there's the gEDA suite found here:
gEDA Project's Homepage
or you can run your favorite windows CAD programs:
WineHQ - Run Windows applications on Linux, BSD, Solaris and Mac OS X
not only is the software free, but so is the OS, here's a couple of links:
The Slackware Linux Project
Ubuntu Home Page | Ubuntu
links to other distributions can be found here:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-distributions-5
Linux Online - List of distributions
gEDA Project's Homepage
or you can run your favorite windows CAD programs:
WineHQ - Run Windows applications on Linux, BSD, Solaris and Mac OS X
not only is the software free, but so is the OS, here's a couple of links:
The Slackware Linux Project
Ubuntu Home Page | Ubuntu
links to other distributions can be found here:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-distributions-5
Linux Online - List of distributions
To: Soongsc, JCX, and Mooly
Soongsc, Tiny Cad is a schematic capture software, that most FreePCB users use. I included it because it helps in providing the user with a complete PCB package for those PCB layout packages that do not have a schematic capture section included with it.
JCX and Mooly:
Sometimes, we all want something for nothing. Mainly because, at the moment, we just don't have the money, to buy it.
Mooly.., here in America, we all get something for nothing. And it is deal that every car owner in America loves, and would hate to see it go.
At Auto Zone, we can borrow tools that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars, and all we have to do is leave a driver's license. Does not cost a thing.
Eagle and Diptrace are great PCB packages. Their intro packages cost less than a hundred dollars. They give you their non-profit packages so that you can become comfortable and good at using it. Then, when you design something that you can sell commercially, you will be required to buy their product. Unless you use a completely free one to begin with.
Vutrax, is a true PCB package software producer. The actually gives away their first 256 pin package. You can even use it commercially. Their idea is that if you can make money with it, sooner or later you will out grow that 256 pins and purchase a larger package. And they are correct.
Because you can only 256 pin so many modules, until you will have to have more pins, so you will buy a larger package, so that you can hit the ground
running; with your new design.
What most software producers do not think about, is their customers. They think profit. They must realize that first the customer must first make money using their free limited package. In order to purchase the more costlier packages. PC Elegence and Vutrax understands that.
Mooly..., regardless as to what you may think or tell yourself. You want more bang for your dollar or pound.
Diptrace in $75.00, for commercial usage of 250 pins. Target 3001 59.00 euros, and will gladly give you a 20% discount for their 400 pin commercial package.
Just a little "wall street" trading, to think about.
Take Care
Ivey
Soongsc, Tiny Cad is a schematic capture software, that most FreePCB users use. I included it because it helps in providing the user with a complete PCB package for those PCB layout packages that do not have a schematic capture section included with it.
JCX and Mooly:
Sometimes, we all want something for nothing. Mainly because, at the moment, we just don't have the money, to buy it.
Mooly.., here in America, we all get something for nothing. And it is deal that every car owner in America loves, and would hate to see it go.
At Auto Zone, we can borrow tools that cost hundreds to thousands of dollars, and all we have to do is leave a driver's license. Does not cost a thing.
Eagle and Diptrace are great PCB packages. Their intro packages cost less than a hundred dollars. They give you their non-profit packages so that you can become comfortable and good at using it. Then, when you design something that you can sell commercially, you will be required to buy their product. Unless you use a completely free one to begin with.
Vutrax, is a true PCB package software producer. The actually gives away their first 256 pin package. You can even use it commercially. Their idea is that if you can make money with it, sooner or later you will out grow that 256 pins and purchase a larger package. And they are correct.
Because you can only 256 pin so many modules, until you will have to have more pins, so you will buy a larger package, so that you can hit the ground
running; with your new design.
What most software producers do not think about, is their customers. They think profit. They must realize that first the customer must first make money using their free limited package. In order to purchase the more costlier packages. PC Elegence and Vutrax understands that.
Mooly..., regardless as to what you may think or tell yourself. You want more bang for your dollar or pound.
Diptrace in $75.00, for commercial usage of 250 pins. Target 3001 59.00 euros, and will gladly give you a 20% discount for their 400 pin commercial package.
Just a little "wall street" trading, to think about.
Take Care
Ivey
Unclejed613
First things first
What does the 613 stands for?
You got my cat ears tinkering.
Yes MAN!!!
Linux is great, yet we have gotten lazy and are using windows. We no longer want to study or know "DOS" or commands; in any language.
We all went through "DOS" and command language in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and part of the 90's. No one wants to do it again.
But those are great PCB packages and they have a lot to be proud of.
But "Windows" brother. It is Windows.
Take Care
Ivey
First things first
What does the 613 stands for?
You got my cat ears tinkering.
Yes MAN!!!
Linux is great, yet we have gotten lazy and are using windows. We no longer want to study or know "DOS" or commands; in any language.
We all went through "DOS" and command language in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and part of the 90's. No one wants to do it again.
But those are great PCB packages and they have a lot to be proud of.
But "Windows" brother. It is Windows.
Take Care
Ivey
I've recently looked for a pcb design software, not necessarily free. But I wanted it to work in a certain way, that would be conducive to my own taste. I was willing to pay money for it too. Drive tested free ones as well as commercial ones. I ended up with kicad, and not because it was free. Very quirky interface (but then again, I found most of them quirky, probably designed by people from another dimension), wasn't happy with the default footprints for any component, but I put some effort into building myself a small library of components the way I want them, and got to be pretty efficient at it. kicad is free, has a schematic capture component too, generates gerber files. Here's an example.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
There is a lot of good information, in this thread. To dig deeper, or maybe get some help with a particular package, people might want to also look at the Homebrew_PCBs discussion group, hosted at yahoogroups.com .
Some consideration should probably also be given to the "safety in numbers" idea, i.e. choosing the software that is used by the most people. Advantages might be better support and a larger pool of other users who might be able to answer your questions or offer help of some kind. I think that Eagle was extremely popular but my information is a few years old, at least.
Once you have gerber files in hand, I highly recommend submitting them to the free, completely-automated "FreeDFM FileCheck" utility, at 4pcb.com . (I had boards made by them in the past, and they are truly great, especially if it's your first time having PCBs made. They use lasers to make holes, too, and have no drill-size restrictions at all. Remember to try changing the QUANTITY in the quote that is automatically emailed, too. You can usually get ten (or more) times as many boards for almost the same total cost.)
Cheers,
Tom Gootee
P.S. I used Easy PC, from Number One Systems, and really loved it (not saying much, since it was the only one I ever really learned well). But it wasn't free, at least for the version I was using. I just noticed that they have a free trial version for download, at Number One Systems :: Software Download Request .
Some consideration should probably also be given to the "safety in numbers" idea, i.e. choosing the software that is used by the most people. Advantages might be better support and a larger pool of other users who might be able to answer your questions or offer help of some kind. I think that Eagle was extremely popular but my information is a few years old, at least.
Once you have gerber files in hand, I highly recommend submitting them to the free, completely-automated "FreeDFM FileCheck" utility, at 4pcb.com . (I had boards made by them in the past, and they are truly great, especially if it's your first time having PCBs made. They use lasers to make holes, too, and have no drill-size restrictions at all. Remember to try changing the QUANTITY in the quote that is automatically emailed, too. You can usually get ten (or more) times as many boards for almost the same total cost.)
Cheers,
Tom Gootee
P.S. I used Easy PC, from Number One Systems, and really loved it (not saying much, since it was the only one I ever really learned well). But it wasn't free, at least for the version I was using. I just noticed that they have a free trial version for download, at Number One Systems :: Software Download Request .
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the 613 is from the 613 commandments of the Torah.
not all linux software is comand line based, as you can see from the screen shots of the gEDA schematic capture and PCB layout GUI interfaces shown below...
most modern distributions of linux have GUI interfaces much like windows and can even be made to behave much like the windows interface. i am using slackware, which, while having a lot of GUI based apps, has it's share of configuration, etc that is still done by CLI (command line interface), but even when i was using windows, i still did a lot of stuff through open DOS windows. there are distributions of linux that have virtually eliminated the need for a CLI for anything a "normal" user would want to do. the view of linux being a command line based environment is pretty much a thing of the past
not all linux software is comand line based, as you can see from the screen shots of the gEDA schematic capture and PCB layout GUI interfaces shown below...
most modern distributions of linux have GUI interfaces much like windows and can even be made to behave much like the windows interface. i am using slackware, which, while having a lot of GUI based apps, has it's share of configuration, etc that is still done by CLI (command line interface), but even when i was using windows, i still did a lot of stuff through open DOS windows. there are distributions of linux that have virtually eliminated the need for a CLI for anything a "normal" user would want to do. the view of linux being a command line based environment is pretty much a thing of the past
Attachments
For sure, for sure.
Redhat is a very nice Linux distribution, too.
And there's WINE running on Linux, to run MS Windows apps. (Interestingly, the WINE acronym stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator. [Luckily, "Wine" is not all caps, there, or it would be recursive <grin>.])
Linux, and Unix in general, are just so much better than Windows. I remember back in the late 1980s(!) [having used Unix starting in 1975 at Purdue], with SCO Unix on my home office machines, being amazed that I could open several windows on my PC (with X-Windows, back then), with each window running a program on a different machine in my network of PCs. And that was on just one of the twelve "virtual consoles" that I could pop between with the function keys.
Of course, they are only fundamentally better than Windows. But Windows is, unfortunately, where the market is, which means it's where the most people and the most applications are, by far, and the most of everything that goes along with them (support, new development, etc, i.e. momentum). As much as I wish I could, I just can't see a compelling reason for a casual user to adopt Linux instead of Windows. However, a dual-boot option is very nice. If I recall correctly, Redhat set that up for me, automatically, when it installed itself.
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It's old, but...
I'm new around here... I'll throw this out there: a "bunch" of us still use the DOS version of Orcad (Orcad 386+) to do both Capture and PCB layout. It "used" to be that you had to use a specific video card and a Win98, XP or run "Dosbox" to use it but there is a new video driver that a member contributed that allows the software to run in Windows with no special requirements. I use Orcad 9.1 to do schematic Capture and "PCB" to do all my PCB design work in DOS. IF you have dual monitors it is a great way to work. You have to get used to the interface (it is not, emphasize, not Windows) but once you get used to it is very fast and very accurate. I have been using it since it was "new" and a 386 was the fastest processor available. It looks a little stark when started, but as I said once you get used to it is great.
You can find out more and download all the files (for free) from the file area at OldDosOrcad : Old Dos Orcad Schematic, PCB layout
Good luck.
Mike Tripoli
I'm new around here... I'll throw this out there: a "bunch" of us still use the DOS version of Orcad (Orcad 386+) to do both Capture and PCB layout. It "used" to be that you had to use a specific video card and a Win98, XP or run "Dosbox" to use it but there is a new video driver that a member contributed that allows the software to run in Windows with no special requirements. I use Orcad 9.1 to do schematic Capture and "PCB" to do all my PCB design work in DOS. IF you have dual monitors it is a great way to work. You have to get used to the interface (it is not, emphasize, not Windows) but once you get used to it is very fast and very accurate. I have been using it since it was "new" and a 386 was the fastest processor available. It looks a little stark when started, but as I said once you get used to it is great.
You can find out more and download all the files (for free) from the file area at OldDosOrcad : Old Dos Orcad Schematic, PCB layout
Good luck.
Mike Tripoli
Ikoflexer, Unclejed613, Gootee, and Mtripoli
Ikoflexer:
Kicad, is a great PCB package. One that I wished that I had gotten into years before. But I am a user of the power pcb packages like PADS, Protel 99SE, and DXP; plus Eagle Professional 4.16.
But my favorites are Autotrax, Protel Schematic 3.1, and CircuitMaker 2000 Pro.
All of my software was given to me by the firms that I work for, or the software makers reps. So I used them.
But lately, I have been seeking and using free software. I have testing and testing and designing footprints, symbols, and all types of things for software that was left on the internet as legacy software.
With a lot of time and trial and error. It is pretty good software.
My one fear, is that Kicad or others that are now free, may one day go commercial; as they become more common among the users.
Gootee:
You hit upon a great idea. We should ban together to form a group to share our ideas, knowledge, and experience in one or two pcb packages.
It should be pcb packages that uses only manual routing, copper fills, etc.
It should be simple enough to get the new comer up and running without him or her pulling their hairs and other body parts out.
With such a group we can create an atmosphere of comfort and security for all users, regardless of their level or levels of experience.
I like your BIG TEN thinking there Gootee.
Mtrikpoli and Unclejed613:
You gentlemen also have the right Idea.
Windows is a problem. I feel that all persons have a right to survive. But some of this software is too costly.
I use very few of the special features of most of my software. Because I do not want to lose control of my creation. I feel funny about clicking a button and everything appears, and I do not know or remember how it happen. I do not feel in command when I use all those special features. That is why I use Autotrax alot.
Linux is a great OS, and I will go back to it.
But I am a MSDOS guy. I have nine computers, including two 486DX 100mhz MSDOS units, that use for all my computer work, except the internet.
I use one 486DX for all my admin work. I run DOS 6.22, with PFS software.
I have gone to used book stores and have purchase everything written on PFS software. I am gooooooooooood at it. All 1986 software.
I run DOS and Windows 3.1 on the other 486DX. It runs IBM graphics programs. No longer available, but I have all the remaining and available software. It was and is 60 years ahead of its time.
I have my internet computer.
My 586 200mhz DOS 6.22, for Autotrax and Protel Schematic, with Win3.1, to run CircuitMaker 2000. Which I use for all my designs.
I have serveral computers from my career, that was given to me by the firms that I work for. Which have Protel and PADS softfware.
But I will return to Linux, some time soon.
Take Care
Ivey
Ikoflexer:
Kicad, is a great PCB package. One that I wished that I had gotten into years before. But I am a user of the power pcb packages like PADS, Protel 99SE, and DXP; plus Eagle Professional 4.16.
But my favorites are Autotrax, Protel Schematic 3.1, and CircuitMaker 2000 Pro.
All of my software was given to me by the firms that I work for, or the software makers reps. So I used them.
But lately, I have been seeking and using free software. I have testing and testing and designing footprints, symbols, and all types of things for software that was left on the internet as legacy software.
With a lot of time and trial and error. It is pretty good software.
My one fear, is that Kicad or others that are now free, may one day go commercial; as they become more common among the users.
Gootee:
You hit upon a great idea. We should ban together to form a group to share our ideas, knowledge, and experience in one or two pcb packages.
It should be pcb packages that uses only manual routing, copper fills, etc.
It should be simple enough to get the new comer up and running without him or her pulling their hairs and other body parts out.
With such a group we can create an atmosphere of comfort and security for all users, regardless of their level or levels of experience.
I like your BIG TEN thinking there Gootee.
Mtrikpoli and Unclejed613:
You gentlemen also have the right Idea.
Windows is a problem. I feel that all persons have a right to survive. But some of this software is too costly.
I use very few of the special features of most of my software. Because I do not want to lose control of my creation. I feel funny about clicking a button and everything appears, and I do not know or remember how it happen. I do not feel in command when I use all those special features. That is why I use Autotrax alot.
Linux is a great OS, and I will go back to it.
But I am a MSDOS guy. I have nine computers, including two 486DX 100mhz MSDOS units, that use for all my computer work, except the internet.
I use one 486DX for all my admin work. I run DOS 6.22, with PFS software.
I have gone to used book stores and have purchase everything written on PFS software. I am gooooooooooood at it. All 1986 software.
I run DOS and Windows 3.1 on the other 486DX. It runs IBM graphics programs. No longer available, but I have all the remaining and available software. It was and is 60 years ahead of its time.
I have my internet computer.
My 586 200mhz DOS 6.22, for Autotrax and Protel Schematic, with Win3.1, to run CircuitMaker 2000. Which I use for all my designs.
I have serveral computers from my career, that was given to me by the firms that I work for. Which have Protel and PADS softfware.
But I will return to Linux, some time soon.
Take Care
Ivey
I like the idea. Additionally, I would like the traces to run and make turns like I want them instead of the angled turns. Do any of the packages allow this?
If you want to stay with DOS then I'd highly recommend a serious look at Orcad as I posted. There is no reason to run it in Windows other than you have to select the proper video driver to go with an "older" video card from a list (the list is pretty good). It will do anything that you want in a PCB layout package. I have done everything from single-sided paper phenolic boards to a 16 layer 5"x16" PC card (years ago). You'll need to read the docs as it isn't a "Windows" program and little "tips" won't pop out and tell you what to do.
This is (granted old) "pro" software. By that I mean you aren't advised to start a new board by placing pads and drawing lines between them (as I've seen some do; a recipe for disaster if you are serious about your time and money). You are well advised to start with a schematic, assign footprints to all components and generate a netlist. The netlist is read into the layout software which will load the footprints. You can then do a "live" ratsnest" to see where all the routes are. You can then arrange the parts as you like and begin routing. It pays to get used to the hotkeys (though you can do everything with the mouse). If you try and connect nets together that don't belong you will get an error message (comes in very handy). "Ground pours" are a matter of generating an outline; vias are a simple one key action.
I do "mostly" very tight analog stuff (low noise-high gain amps, audio amps, etc.) and like that nothing is trying to push things around for me. I've used many of the various packages over the years (necessary as a consultant) but when it's up to me I go right back to this package.
Mike Tripoli
This is (granted old) "pro" software. By that I mean you aren't advised to start a new board by placing pads and drawing lines between them (as I've seen some do; a recipe for disaster if you are serious about your time and money). You are well advised to start with a schematic, assign footprints to all components and generate a netlist. The netlist is read into the layout software which will load the footprints. You can then do a "live" ratsnest" to see where all the routes are. You can then arrange the parts as you like and begin routing. It pays to get used to the hotkeys (though you can do everything with the mouse). If you try and connect nets together that don't belong you will get an error message (comes in very handy). "Ground pours" are a matter of generating an outline; vias are a simple one key action.
I do "mostly" very tight analog stuff (low noise-high gain amps, audio amps, etc.) and like that nothing is trying to push things around for me. I've used many of the various packages over the years (necessary as a consultant) but when it's up to me I go right back to this package.
Mike Tripoli
Agreed. OldDosOrcad is fantastic - another member here!
When I used it professionally, some 25 years ago, it was a true revolution.
Only problem is my stack of keyboard macros depends on Ctrl, Alt, Shift with Function keys to give 30 instant functions. Great when XT (remember them??) keyboards had 10 function keys on the left.
Such keyboards are unobtanium - Northgate died as well.
When I used it professionally, some 25 years ago, it was a true revolution.
Only problem is my stack of keyboard macros depends on Ctrl, Alt, Shift with Function keys to give 30 instant functions. Great when XT (remember them??) keyboards had 10 function keys on the left.
Such keyboards are unobtanium - Northgate died as well.
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