Hi Ask
On my Vista-64 OS, all versions will crash on startup IF the sound card has an input and output connected. If there is no input, but there is an output, then the program will start, but the listing for the sound card input will be blank. Inserting the input and reinitializing the sound card clears up the problem. This could be an error with the sound card. The modern sound card drivers do have input and output detect which could be giving your program some trouble as the sound card reports no capabilities if there is nothing plugged in.
The software also crashes if there is nothing plugged into the sound card. There must be ONLY an output connection or none of the versions will start.
On my Vista-64 OS, all versions will crash on startup IF the sound card has an input and output connected. If there is no input, but there is an output, then the program will start, but the listing for the sound card input will be blank. Inserting the input and reinitializing the sound card clears up the problem. This could be an error with the sound card. The modern sound card drivers do have input and output detect which could be giving your program some trouble as the sound card reports no capabilities if there is nothing plugged in.
The software also crashes if there is nothing plugged into the sound card. There must be ONLY an output connection or none of the versions will start.
Thanks Ask, seems to work now...
@Earl: I know you won't like to read this, by why not keep things clean by setting up a extra PC (or a partition on the one your using) only for audio/scientific work? I have done so for years now, using an Windows2000 installation that was never touched in years (and of course without any internet connection, etc). Only recently I had to migrate to XP(32bit) for other reasons and already regret it, as there are issues with the soundcards now that didn't show up with W2K (heavy hard-disk traffic sometimes produces clicks and sync-errors).
- Klaus
@Earl: I know you won't like to read this, by why not keep things clean by setting up a extra PC (or a partition on the one your using) only for audio/scientific work? I have done so for years now, using an Windows2000 installation that was never touched in years (and of course without any internet connection, etc). Only recently I had to migrate to XP(32bit) for other reasons and already regret it, as there are issues with the soundcards now that didn't show up with W2K (heavy hard-disk traffic sometimes produces clicks and sync-errors).
- Klaus
gedlee said:
- Does it crash before you measure?
- Any errors when crashing?
- The "Show info" gives information about the detected i/o's ?
(If so, then attach this info as txt-file in a post)
I have difficulties reproducing this error.
I have tested on a pc with no input or output
I have tested on a pc with no input , but output
Hi Ask
No, the software never even starts, I never see a screen.
I have another problem. The program crashes with a memory fault when I try and do a loop back. I must restart the program once this happens as it will always happen after the first time.
While Vista 64 is rather unique at the moment, and the saound card not so common, it is a mainstream HP, the kind of system that you should expect to see more and more of. It is unchanged from the system that was shipped. I use HPs because they have been very stable for me, I have 5 of them. Only this Vista-64 one has any of the problems with your software, but this is the one that I use for measurements.
Clearly my problem is unique and almost not worth worrying about until you get more complaints. It could easily be a bug in the sound card drivers.
KSTR - sorry a computer like you suggest is not practical for me because I can never have a fixed measurement setup. I have to clear my living room and setup the system and then tear it down. The computer must do multiple duty.
No, the software never even starts, I never see a screen.
I have another problem. The program crashes with a memory fault when I try and do a loop back. I must restart the program once this happens as it will always happen after the first time.
While Vista 64 is rather unique at the moment, and the saound card not so common, it is a mainstream HP, the kind of system that you should expect to see more and more of. It is unchanged from the system that was shipped. I use HPs because they have been very stable for me, I have 5 of them. Only this Vista-64 one has any of the problems with your software, but this is the one that I use for measurements.
Clearly my problem is unique and almost not worth worrying about until you get more complaints. It could easily be a bug in the sound card drivers.
KSTR - sorry a computer like you suggest is not practical for me because I can never have a fixed measurement setup. I have to clear my living room and setup the system and then tear it down. The computer must do multiple duty.
Re: Re: DUT response import
Klaus, what software are you using to generate IR from measurements then?
So, it seems what I asked before is correct...? You use the onboard soundcard on a $10 HP motherboard for critical measurements? Surley this isnt what you used to create the published results for your summas etc...?!
KSTR said:
Klaus, what software are you using to generate IR from measurements then?
So, it seems what I asked before is correct...? You use the onboard soundcard on a $10 HP motherboard for critical measurements? Surley this isnt what you used to create the published results for your summas etc...?!
gedlee said:
I think you might not understand what he is recommending. He is saying to keep Vista 64 and use it for internet, experimenting etc... (whatever will work on it) But also install a second Hard Drive that is running XP on the same computer. This way you can go into BIOS before you boot up and choose to boot to either Disc 1 Vista 64 or Disc 2 XP Pro.
This is a pretty common setup now and it is the way I run both of my computers regardless of OS.
Disc 1 = Internet, Experimenting with new Audio software etc..
Disc 2 = Stable OS dedicated to working on Audio "mission critical" OS
I use it for DAW and Multitrack mixing purposes which can be very demanding but this same type of setup has been getting more and more popular for all types of work. Personally I find the more you get rid of security and networking the more stable an OS will be for audio work.
Additionally Vista has a bit of a problem with audio and streaming. It has a much higher DPC Latency than XP when running the same hardware. This should not be directly related to your problem with his software but it is a good idea for anyone working on audio with Vista to run DPC Latency Checker.
I use glsweep (generates the sweep and its inverse) and lsconv (a general purpose convolver), both from the DRC-package. Additionally I have my own little code for logsweeps etc and I use Audtion to make the inverse and for convolving (unless the sweeps are long, then it cannot handle it) and for format conversions, occasionally using SoX for those tasks (also comes with the DRC distro). Playback/Recording is done with a variety of audio-software, usually I choose my main DAW program for this which is an old version of Samplitude as it is optimized for the soundcards I use (that is, more likely the other way round).Theo404 said:
The nice thing of being able to import/export IR's and complex FR's is the toolbox character of it (way more applications than plain speaker measurements), for example you can import an arbitrary FR (generated/edited by other SW) and let HOLMI generate the IFFT, producing the corresponding IR. Plus the FFT math routines, graphical routines etc. While I can have all that in other packages as well (Octave+GNUplot, etc), HOLMI is very easy to use.
BTW: @Ask,
for further enhancing the toolbox character of the SW it would be nice to also let the user provide his own inverse, as an alternative to the built-in Inversion. That is, only if that makes practical sense and is feasible with your SW structure, otherwise don't bother.
Right now it already is the best freeware program all over and rivals al lot of $$$ tools in functionality. As a DIYer one can easily live with a few drawbacks (like little documentation as of yet) and the occasional bug popping up (I'll keep you posted whenever I run into issues). One can choose to invest either $$$ in pro software or invest some time and own effort in this kind of software, I prefer to do the latter, as one also can learn something (at least I did, a lot already).
- Klaus
Holm
I had trouble with my Vista setup but know I am up running fine and I would add great job. You must be working hard because there is a new update every time I start up. I use Acourate which is a paid program and frankly you are beginning to surpass it - although you don't have the filter generation aspect of Acourate.
I know this would require a lot of effort but a linus version would be nice so I wouldn't have to mess with Vista
Tom
I had trouble with my Vista setup but know I am up running fine and I would add great job. You must be working hard because there is a new update every time I start up. I use Acourate which is a paid program and frankly you are beginning to surpass it - although you don't have the filter generation aspect of Acourate.
I know this would require a lot of effort but a linus version would be nice so I wouldn't have to mess with Vista
Tom
KSTR said:
Completely agree!! I am using it exclusively now.
two recommends:
1) polar responses as a single data set, or self naming of the files written out. I use "'Name'_00.txt", "'Name'_07.txt", etc. just increment the numbers (I use 7.5 degrees) and drop any fractional part. A single data set is even better. Rows and columns with a deliminator.
2) an easy way to get impedance measurements when the amp is not necessarily negligable. I can measure the output current, and the impednace would just be the inverse of this IF the amp is negligable.
Export all measurements as textfile
You praise me to the skies
So I have implemented the "Block export feature" in this new release:
http://www.holmacoustics.com/holmimpulse.php
Version 1.2.1.0 (2009-07-13)
Features/Changes:
* Export all measurements as textfile (Impulse responses only)
* Locate impulse peak for LF with HF noise improved
* Normalization dialog includes maximum dB for graph
* GUI - Calibration box moved to device tab
* GUI - Save wave files moved to analysis tab
Bugfixes:
* Make Dac-Adc calibration does not work
Used it from: File > Export All measurements (dialog)
Be aware that the samplerate must equal the measurements, for you to get exact data.
gedlee said:
You praise me to the skies
So I have implemented the "Block export feature" in this new release:
http://www.holmacoustics.com/holmimpulse.php
Version 1.2.1.0 (2009-07-13)
Features/Changes:
* Export all measurements as textfile (Impulse responses only)
* Locate impulse peak for LF with HF noise improved
* Normalization dialog includes maximum dB for graph
* GUI - Calibration box moved to device tab
* GUI - Save wave files moved to analysis tab
Bugfixes:
* Make Dac-Adc calibration does not work
Used it from: File > Export All measurements (dialog)
Be aware that the samplerate must equal the measurements, for you to get exact data.
bravo to Ask, very nice soft with a VERY quick dev schedule !
one feature I haven't seen on the list : is a frequency dependant window planned ?
In other softwares, it is called dual gate, fixed point per octave, multiwin, smoothFFT,...
One idea could be a window length correponding to some periods of the frequency with a short limit of 1 to 10ms.
one feature I haven't seen on the list : is a frequency dependant window planned ?
In other softwares, it is called dual gate, fixed point per octave, multiwin, smoothFFT,...
One idea could be a window length correponding to some periods of the frequency with a short limit of 1 to 10ms.
Frequency-dependent time window
That is also exactly my intuitive approach
1. Specify time (t1) where no smoothing is done. (Like now)
2. Specify number of wavelengths to include after t1
3. Then for each sample after t1 I'll have to calculate a LP FIR-filter and apply to that sample. It might take a while
Have you seen anybody doing this?
I am still thinking about how to do this... Do you have any links for this frequency dependent time-windowing?jlo said:
That is also exactly my intuitive approach
1. Specify time (t1) where no smoothing is done. (Like now)
2. Specify number of wavelengths to include after t1
3. Then for each sample after t1 I'll have to calculate a LP FIR-filter and apply to that sample. It might take a while
Have you seen anybody doing this?
Ask
The polar data as a single file is great. Thanks!!
I find the file saving convention confusing and sometimes don;t get the file saved properly. When you use "browse" to find or create a directory, you have to give a file name, but that name is never used. Then you have to hit "Export ...", but there is never a warning if you are overwritting existing data. I would suggest that "Browse" just return a directory name so that no file need be specified and that you ask if the file is to be overwritten. I've made some unrecoverable errors with this before.
The polar data as a single file is great. Thanks!!
I find the file saving convention confusing and sometimes don;t get the file saved properly. When you use "browse" to find or create a directory, you have to give a file name, but that name is never used. Then you have to hit "Export ...", but there is never a warning if you are overwritting existing data. I would suggest that "Browse" just return a directory name so that no file need be specified and that you ask if the file is to be overwritten. I've made some unrecoverable errors with this before.
You call it polar data - so I guess, that you are looking at angular dependent impulse responses.gedlee said:
Where can I see all your nice graphs?
I'll introduce a prompt to confirm overwrite if file already exists when you click the export button. And disable the confirm overwrite when you browse, since it does not make sense there - I agree.
Re: Frequency-dependent time window
I think that the first who did this was Doug Rife in the mid nineties with his incredible compact (550Ko) MLSSA software running under DOS.
He calls this "Adaptative Window" with even two versions (Room and Loudspeaker)
here is a quote of the help file : An Adaptative or sliding window that increases in length at low Freq to include room reflections but narrows at high freq to exclude them. The maximum length is set by the current marker and cursor positions. The Room option is best for measuring room response. The speaker option excludes room effects except at the lowest freqs.
More recently you can find this also with Praxis from Liberty Instruments or CLIO by Audiomatica.
askbojesen said:
I think that the first who did this was Doug Rife in the mid nineties with his incredible compact (550Ko) MLSSA software running under DOS.
He calls this "Adaptative Window" with even two versions (Room and Loudspeaker)
here is a quote of the help file : An Adaptative or sliding window that increases in length at low Freq to include room reflections but narrows at high freq to exclude them. The maximum length is set by the current marker and cursor positions. The Room option is best for measuring room response. The speaker option excludes room effects except at the lowest freqs.
More recently you can find this also with Praxis from Liberty Instruments or CLIO by Audiomatica.
Re: Frequency-dependent time window
Here is a link that I recommend you to read from page 43 and up
http://www.mlssa.com/pdf/DRA-MLSSA-Manual-10WI-8.pdf
askbojesen said:
Here is a link that I recommend you to read from page 43 and up
http://www.mlssa.com/pdf/DRA-MLSSA-Manual-10WI-8.pdf
Frequency-dependent time window
Two different time windows (Dual gating)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1856717#post1856717
A = HP with narrow time-window
B = LP with wide time-window
C = A +B
I know that the procedure is cumbersome, but the reason why I have not implemented this feature is because I don't like it...
The real solution would be the n-wave filter as you+I suggested.
One might ask - why not triple gating? and so on...
But I might implement this anyway Parameters would be:
1. X-over frequency for LP, HP
2. Narrow time-window for HP
3. Wide time-window for LP
FFPO (fixed point per octave)
This is in gact what I already use in the total-response (1/N dB per octave filter where N can be fractional)
Two different time windows (Dual gating)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1856717#post1856717
A = HP with narrow time-window
B = LP with wide time-window
C = A +B
I know that the procedure is cumbersome, but the reason why I have not implemented this feature is because I don't like it...
The real solution would be the n-wave filter as you+I suggested.
One might ask - why not triple gating? and so on...
But I might implement this anyway
Parameters would be:1. X-over frequency for LP, HP
2. Narrow time-window for HP
3. Wide time-window for LP
FFPO (fixed point per octave)
This is in gact what I already use in the total-response (1/N dB per octave filter where N can be fractional)
Re: Frequency-dependent time window
Hi Ask,
Since DRC is GNU GPL licensed stuff, it should not pose any problem to integrate parts of it your product (both conceptual and actual code).
Now when that would be implemented one day then HOMLI would an even more versatile tool than it already is. Actually this windowing / sliding lowpass thingy as a modular approach, with enough adjustable parameters would be something really great for impulse editing, even unique in the world (while we have it already in DRC, it's pretty much embedded/buried in the whole process and there no GUI at all --- at least not from the original author).
- Klaus
EDIT: Man, you are faster than sound when it comes tu updates!!
Hi Ask,
Mabye the DRC source code & documentation will give some insights. Denis Sbragion has implemented both "frequency dependent time windowing" and "sliding lowpass", the latter seems to be more favorable for a number or reasons (on being less computational problems).
Since DRC is GNU GPL licensed stuff, it should not pose any problem to integrate parts of it your product (both conceptual and actual code).
Now when that would be implemented one day then HOMLI would an even more versatile tool than it already is. Actually this windowing / sliding lowpass thingy as a modular approach, with enough adjustable parameters would be something really great for impulse editing, even unique in the world (while we have it already in DRC, it's pretty much embedded/buried in the whole process and there no GUI at all --- at least not from the original author).
- Klaus
EDIT: Man, you are faster than sound when it comes tu updates!!