| Francesco |
Hi all, I'd like to build a couple of loudspeakers (or try, at least) and I was thinking about fullrange, they seem the simplest way to enter the DIY world.
I'd like to have a floorstander loudspeaker, with some decent bass extension, so I guess that a vented box is the way to go.
Can I use more than one driver?
Can you guys help me to start?
Thanks!
Ciao :)
Francesco |
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| Francesco |
Is there something... ehm... bigger?
With 80mm ø - 82db SPL - low freq @ 130hz it seems a little small to me... maybe I'm missing something |
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| larkinrulez |
Would be just to get into it....with the Tangbands you get 50hz.
Of course it's not a very loud box but you will love them and build then something bigger, with the Needle as reference! |
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| Crossblade |
Can you build more complicated box? :D And as the size is no problem ... 6.5 or 8" fullrange driver would do it for you.
Check out Fostex FE-166/167e and FE-206/207e :smash: |
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| pjanda1 |
How about starting with some basics: system, listening habits, budget. What amplifier do you plan to use? What sort of music do you listen to? How much space do you have, and how much money do you have to spend? MLTL's, folded pipes and the like pose some real advantages over simple BR's (especially with fullrangers) and they are no harder to build. Here are some sites to get you thinking.
Many here advocate MLTL's like this:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project05/Project05.html
Dave's site has a ton of ideas, some very simple:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes.html
One of the BIB's may fit you (especially if you want bass from a fullranger):
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
I'm very partial to the Hemp Acoustics drivers, but it'll be a month at least before you can get the new line. Patience is required.
There are a multitude of options that will be difficult to sort through unless you can nail down some criterea. I'm a firm believer that you should also pick a speaker and enclosure that you like the idea of. If everybody tells you (meaningless example, both would be great) that a BIB with the Fostex FF165K is absolutely perfect for you but you really really like the look and idea of the CSS FR125 in a Fonken, you should build the latter. You'll be happier with something you truly want. If you are completely open to all suggestions, then your requirements can dictate the best solution. And finally, there are strong advantages to going with the largest thing you can tolerate.
good luck,
pj |
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| shrinkboy |
| would the cyburg's needle also work with the RS 40=1197? i am trying to come up with a plan that a total neophyte wood chopper would be able to handle. not looking for the last word, just something to 'see if i can do it' and run with a little tripath amp or small tube amp. but, as much bass as can be develped. i already have the drivers... |
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| pjanda1 |
Why not do something designed for the 40-1197? For "as much bass as can be developed" and an easy build, do the BIBs. Also look at the ZigmaHornet ML-TL and GM's ML-Voigt on Planet10's site. Click on the link from my previos post, then click on Fostex. Unlike the BIB's, I think they'll require some BSC, which will hurt efficiency wiht your little amp. You'll see 'em when you scroll down.
pj |
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| vitalstates |
| quote: | Originally posted by Francesco
Is there something... ehm... bigger?
With 80mm ø - 82db SPL - low freq @ 130hz it seems a little small to me... maybe I'm missing something |
there sure is...... www.vitalstates.co.uk
follow the link for vofo
Regards
Ed |
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| Scottmoose |
| Oh yes. The Vofos have a certain kick to them. If floor space is limited or size restrictions imposed, they're probably my favourite FR speaker for 8in driver. |
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| Francesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Crossblade
Can you build more complicated box? :D And as the size is no problem ... 6.5 or 8" fullrange driver would do it for you.
Check out Fostex FE-166/167e and FE-206/207e :smash: |
My girlfriend's grandfather was a carpenter (and still is) so I guess that there's no problem on this side. He's always happy to put hands on wood :D
| quote: | Originally posted by pjanda1
How about starting with some basics: system, listening habits, budget. What amplifier do you plan to use? What sort of music do you listen to? How much space do you have, and how much money do you have to spend? MLTL's, folded pipes and the like pose some real advantages over simple BR's (especially with fullrangers) and they are no harder to build. Here are some sites to get you thinking.
Many here advocate MLTL's like this:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project05/Project05.html
Dave's site has a ton of ideas, some very simple:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes.html
One of the BIB's may fit you (especially if you want bass from a fullranger):
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp
I'm very partial to the Hemp Acoustics drivers, but it'll be a month at least before you can get the new line. Patience is required.
There are a multitude of options that will be difficult to sort through unless you can nail down some criterea. I'm a firm believer that you should also pick a speaker and enclosure that you like the idea of. If everybody tells you (meaningless example, both would be great) that a BIB with the Fostex FF165K is absolutely perfect for you but you really really like the look and idea of the CSS FR125 in a Fonken, you should build the latter. You'll be happier with something you truly want. If you are completely open to all suggestions, then your requirements can dictate the best solution. And finally, there are strong advantages to going with the largest thing you can tolerate.
good luck,
pj |
You're right, it's better to add something about me :D
I mainly listen to rock/acoustic with a yamaha stereo amplifier (I'll write the exact model later, I'm not at home right now) and I sometimes use a Indiana Line HC-810 subwoofer. I can switch to a nad 3020i amplifier if I want, and in the future I'd like to build a tripath amp, just for fun.
The source is, at the moment, my PC with an onkyo se-150 soundcard, and I play only lossless audio files.
I obviously prefer not to spend a lot of money, but I don't want to go cheap at all costs.
This is a project that I'd like to do for the music/HT setup in the future house with my girlfriend, we just have an empty living room at the moment. It's around 6mt x 4mt and the TV will go on one of the short sides with the sofa at about 2-3 meters.
What else? Oh, my girlfriend fell in love with the yellow finish of some HI-VI drives, and from this point of view I'd like some modern-looking drives, since they will stand in the living room... |
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| Solve |
Build an Amp6 Basic and you are on the run!
Easy to build!
Great sound!
...im not selling these stuff.
If you please.
:)
Then TABAQ
Cheap great sounding-easy built-low coast-system.
Solve |
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| Francesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Solve
Build an Amp6 Basic and you are on the run!
Easy to build!
Great sound!
...im not selling these stuff.
If you please.
:)
Then TABAQ
Cheap great sounding-easy built-low coast-system.
Solve |
that amp seems to be nice! but where is the volume control? :confused: |
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| Francesco |
By the way, thanks for all the suggestions and for helping me.
I'll look at the links and see if I can find something I like |
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| pjanda1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Francesco
What else? Oh, my girlfriend fell in love with the yellow finish of some HI-VI drives, and from this point of view I'd like some modern-looking drives, since they will stand in the living room... |
I can't think of any yellow fullrangers off hand, but here are some of the more modern looking drivers:
Creative Sound FR125S:
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=FR125S
Neofone:
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_speaker.htm
TangBand Bamboo:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/psho...FTOKEN=98464076
All of these are capable of decent bass in uncomplicated moderately sized enclosures. The Creative Sound and Neofone probably have enough displacement to provide adaquate volume in a BR. However, various TL designs are floating around. Not to many have reported on the Neofone, as it's relatively new. However, it looks like a real sweetie. I'd put it in a BIB. The TB Bamboo would be a great first project.
Or is this more to your liking?
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/in...77.9209&pid=326
(Fostex 168 Sigma) It costs a bit more for sure. It will need a BIB enclosure if it's not used in a horn. No BR's here. Where the above drivers will all be 'smooth' for fullrangers, this one will excel at 'detail.' Many consider it the epitome of a fullrange driver.
Though boring looking, as your 'cross the pond, I'd look at the Monacor options. The SPH-60x in a BIB would be a fantastic, inexpensive first project.
http://www.spectrumaudio.de/breit/m...acorSPH60X.html
Shipping costs make the Monacor less attractive over here, otherwise you'd see more references to them. ScottMoose, our own BIB guru, raves about this little driver. If you got bored with the Monacor, or decided you needed higher output capabilities, the Neofone should work in the same BIB enclosure (with a different cutout, I think).
good luck,
pj |
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| pjanda1 |
BTW, none of those options is huge (Fostex 168sigma in a BIB would be the biggest). If you are willing to tolerate big, consider the Monacor SP-200x in a BIB.
pj |
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| Francesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by pjanda1
BTW, none of those options is huge (Fostex 168sigma in a BIB would be the biggest). If you are willing to tolerate big, consider the Monacor SP-200x in a BIB.
pj |
I like the first three drivers :)
For the BIB options... I fear that my GF would considerate them as too big :D
I think that the maximum height will be 1mt - 1.20mt
BTW: I love your "cross the pond" expression :rofl:
It took me a while to understand, but that's not important :D |
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| Scottmoose |
| Get a pair of FE206/7Es into Ed's Vofos then. She can't complain about the looks as they're pretty attractive, all things considered: |
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| pjanda1 |
If the thing you liked about the first three was the phase plugs (the masculine thing in the center of the driver), you can awfully easily ad them to the FE206/207. Many would claim a large improvement from the modification.
pj |
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| Scottmoose |
| They work wonders at bringing the midrange and treble into line, as shown on FR measurements. I'm trying to talk Ed into putting a pair into the 206s in his Vofos. |
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| Francesco |
Hi all
Sorry for the late reply, I've been on Easter holidays :)
I saw this horn cabinet:
from this page: http://www.maclementhorn.it/HT_Fostex.htm
Can I use it (or something like that) with the Fostex 168 Sigma?
Do you think it's a hard project to build?
Ciao!
Francesco |
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| Francesco |
You're faster than light :D
Now I'm going to sleep, I'll give a better look tomorrow
Thanks! |
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| Scottmoose |
Er, I'm not sure what you want us to say? What about it? ;) To use in what way? Need a bit more information to work with here!
FWIW, it's a Monacor, and their engineering is good. However, it's got a kevlar cone, and if there's one thing I hate, it's kevlar as a cone material. World's worst midrange. |
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| Francesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
Er, I'm not sure what you want us to say? What about it? ;) To use in what way? Need a bit more information to work with here!
FWIW, it's a Monacor, and their engineering is good. However, it's got a kevlar cone, and if there's one thing I hate, it's kevlar as a cone material. World's worst midrange. |
Yes, sorry... I simply translated from italian, we often use "to know something" with the "what do you think about something" meaning :)
So... what about it?
Why don't you like kevlar as a cone material? I've read some positive impressions of people using it...
I like this one, too: Monacor SP-80X. Do you think it's good in a horn enclosure or in a TL enclosure? I think it's cheap too, 31€ (about 42USD) each.
The SPH-165KEP is about 100€ - 134USD each. :bigeyes:
Thanks!
Francesco |
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| Scottmoose |
Got you. Interesting how different languages work isn't it?
I can't stand what every kevlar driver I've heard to date does to the midrange. To my ears they scream, particularly on female vocals. Not for me. I prefer paper, metal, poly, or carbon cones. Monacor don't build rubbish, but this particular unit just isn't the sort I like.
The 80X looks better, although it'll probably need a notch filter to kill that peak at ~3KHz. Unfortunately there is very little information on it on the Monacor site. I suspect it'd be better for PA use though -it looks liek the sort of driver that would be. Remember too that the 165KEP is a mid-bass driver, not a full-range or wide-range unit. It will need a tweeter and XO.
Tell you what: if you want an outright bargin of a driver from the Monacor range, look at the 5in SPH-60X. Louis of Omega speakers took these, in a nicely finished but quite simple reflex box, to a show where the new Zu Tone was being demonstrated. After listening to both, most people concluded the Omega / Monacor beat the Zu. Not a bad scalp to claim. Perfect for horn loading too. The 8in SP200X is also a very good driver for the money. |
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| Francesco |
The SP-200X looks interesting. I don't know why, but I'm attracted by larger drivers (maybe I think that bigger = more bass, but keep in mind that I'm a newbie).
Ok, imagine that I've two SP-200X here with me. What kind of project would you suggest me? Bass reflex, TL... what would you prefer?
Thanks!
Francesco |
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| Scottmoose |
More to the point, what would you prefer, given that you're the one who'll be listening to the end result of whatever you build?
Before deciding on any speaker project, you need to ask yourself a few general things. 1) What is my maximum budget? 2) How big is the room? 3) What aesthetic / size restrictions are there? 4) What sort of music do I listen to? 5) What sort of musical presentation do I like?
With these answered, you'll have a clearer idea of what you're hoping to achieve. If you could let us know, we'll be able to help you narrow your choices more easily & home in on something you'll like.
Scott |
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| pjanda1 |
Hey, that looks much like my post on page 1 ;)
pj |
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| Scottmoose |
| So it does. Well, they say everything goes full-circle... at least we know where we are. ;) |
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| Francesco |
Maybe the informations on post n.13 are not enough, so let's try again :)
1) Say 150-200€ (200-270USD) maximum for the drivers. For the wood and the other things: I'll spend what is necessary.
2) The room is 6mt x 5mt (about 20ft x 16ft), the speakers will be on one of the short sides. Unfortunately they will be near the rear wall.
3) My GF says that anything up to 150cm x 35cm x 35cm will be ok.
4) Mainly rock / acoustic. The speakers will be used for Home Theater too.
5) What do you mean? I don't understand, sorry. If you mean what kind of sound I like: I prefer precise and detailed sound rather than smooth sound. I'd like to have a good low extension so I can turn off my subwoofer when listening to music.
At the moment I use a Yamaha AX-350 stereo amplifier, but I can switch to a NAD 3020i if I want.
Thanks!
Francesco |
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| peterbrorsson |
1) Say 150-200€ (200-270USD) maximum for the drivers. For the wood and the other things: I'll spend what is necessary.
2) The room is 6mt x 5mt (about 20ft x 16ft), the speakers will be on one of the short sides. Unfortunately they will be near the rear wall.
3) My GF says that anything up to 150cm x 35cm x 35cm will be ok.
4) Mainly rock / acoustic. The speakers will be used for Home Theater too.
5) What do you mean? I don't understand, sorry. If you mean what kind of sound I like: I prefer precise and detailed sound rather than smooth sound. I'd like to have a good low extension so I can turn off my subwoofer when listening to music.
Hi!
I have built a BIB Monacor SPH60X so I'll give some comments.
2. My room is +50 sqm and they behave as a MUCH bigger driver in my room. Also these have to be up against a wall, preferable in corners. However in my room the bass is too much placed in corners.
3. Mine is spot on size. (even smaller) Scottmoose simmed these for me but there is a larger updated version at, www.ZillaSpeak.com
4. It's ok for me.
5. Monacors are a little bit darker sounding. For me it's a good thing. I use for the moment a NAD 7020 which works excellent. It's almost the same amp as 3020 but with a weaker power supply. I had the 3020 before also, not that much difference IMHO.
Good luck!
Peter |
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| Scottmoose |
For a simple build, a BIB is good, but I reckon your GF might not take to their height too well, although they are pretty slim. ;) Ideally, it'd want to be about 70in tall for one of the larger units, which I suspect would be vetoed.
Something off the frugal horn site could suit: www.frugal-horn.com -probably Ron's Dallas II or one of the Spawn Horns like Bruce, with the FE207E, as they're big enough to handle the space.
Alternativly, you can drop a pair of Fostex FE206E drivers, which are right in your price range, into the Factory FE208Esigma cabinet design to excellent effect (the ones you pictured on the last page. You'll find the plans here: http://www.madisound.com/pdf/fostex...8ez_enclrev.pdf It's a touch wider & about 17cm deeper than you specify, but it's a relatively easy build, they've got massive bass, & plenty of potential for future upgrades. Look good too. |
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| Francesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
Alternativly, you can drop a pair of Fostex FE206E drivers, which are right in your price range, into the Factory FE208Esigma cabinet design to excellent effect (the ones you pictured on the last page. You'll find the plans here: http://www.madisound.com/pdf/fostex...8ez_enclrev.pdf It's a touch wider & about 17cm deeper than you specify, but it's a relatively easy build, they've got massive bass, & plenty of potential for future upgrades. Look good too. |
I like this solution, thank you!
I've seen that in the 208ez enclosure plan there is an option for adding a super-tweeter, but it's a very expensive driver, while the FT17H super-tweeter is much cheaper. Would the FE206E and the FT17H work good together with the suggested 1µF capacitor? It's just an idea, maybe a stupid one :D |
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| Pit Hinder |
Ciao Francesco,
with the 206 you won't need a supertweeter.
If you decide to build these cabinets, change one thing: the strips of wood reinforcing the rear panel should be fastened edge on, not flat.
Pit |
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| Francesco |
Hi Pit
Thanks for your hint :)
What do you mean with "fastened edge on"? :blush: |
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| peterbrorsson |
Hi Francesco!
If you build a smaller (cheaper) BIB as an experiment and play some of GF's favorite music I think she will tolerate bigger ones.
That worked out for me.
"I think she will tolerate bigger ones!" Taken out of context, hmm sounds funny:devilr:
Cheers
Peter |
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| chrisb |
| quote: | Originally posted by peterbrorsson
Hi Francesco!
If you build a smaller (cheaper) BIB as an experiment and play some of GF's favorite music I think she will tolerate bigger ones.
That worked out for me.
"I think she will tolerate bigger ones!" Taken out of context, hmm sounds funny:devilr:
Cheers
Peter |
Be careful not to inadvertently adapt them to "bigger ones" - the tolerance may soon turn to preference, and statistically few of us can measure up. |
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| Scottmoose |
:D
An alternative for the rear of the 208 cabinet is to simply double the back panel. That's what my friend Simon did, and it works a treat. As Pit said, the 206 won't need additional tweeters, although it will benefit from a pair of Dave's phase plugs. |
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| peterbrorsson |
Chris, my only hope is that statistic is another word for 'bending the truth":)
Cheers
Peter |
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| Francesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Scottmoose
:D
An alternative for the rear of the 208 cabinet is to simply double the back panel. That's what my friend Simon did, and it works a treat. As Pit said, the 206 won't need additional tweeters, although it will benefit from a pair of Dave's phase plugs. |
The back panel seems more simple with just one big panel instead of the three vertical ones.
I have a little problem: I don't understand where the panel n°32 goes... on the far right side of the pdf it is shown as "TERMINAL (#32)" and it seems to have two holes, but I can't find its placement on the three big views.
The "#6 + #21 DETAILS" scheme was a little hard to understand, but I got it :D
It's funny to decrypt this scheme :D
PS: I've seen the phase-plugs installation guide... it's scary! :bigeyes: |
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| Pit Hinder |
Ciao Francesco,
#1 - where in Italy is Merate, which, of course, means " tell us about the cooking in your region" ?
#2 - Part# 32 is nonsense. It just shows where to drill holes for the terminals - provided you use the same terminals Fostex used for their prototype. Not a bad idea to use that kind, though - the gigantic plastic "bathtubs" are expensive and can resonate like mad.
Cheers,
Pit |
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| Francesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by Pit Hinder
Ciao Francesco,
#1 - where in Italy is Merate, which, of course, means " tell us about the cooking in your region" ?
#2 - Part# 32 is nonsense. It just shows where to drill holes for the terminals - provided you use the same terminals Fostex used for their prototype. Not a bad idea to use that kind, though - the gigantic plastic "bathtubs" are expensive and can resonate like mad.
Cheers,
Pit |
1) Merate is in the northern part of Italy, near Monza... which you may know for the F1 Grand Prix. The cooking is good, but in my girlfriend's regon is far better: she lives near Bologna and Modena (and near Ferrari headquarters and factory :bigeyes: )... and the cooking is a real joy!
2) This is a good thing, as I was not able at all to understand the placement of the #32 :D
Ciao!
Francesco |
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| planet10 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Francesco
What else? Oh, my girlfriend fell in love with the yellow finish of some HI-VI drives, and from this point of view I'd like some modern-looking drives, since they will stand in the living room... |
Fostex cones can be made yellow as part of the modification process... so far i've only done black, blue, and a bronzy colour...
dave |
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| Francesco |
| This sounds really scary! :eek: |
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| planet10 |
| Here is a pic of Scott's blue ones |
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| wixy |
Francesco, thought you might be interested in a pic of the 208esigma cabinet, that I am currently building for fe206e's based on scottmoose's and other's recommendation.
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| Scottmoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by planet10
Here is a pic of Scott's blue ones |
...and very good they are too. Beats a 108ESigma IMO. Look better too. :) |
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| Francesco |
| quote: | Originally posted by wixy
Francesco, thought you might be interested in a pic of the 208esigma cabinet, that I am currently building for fe206e's based on scottmoose's and other's recommendation.
[IMG]
[IMG] |
:eek: :eek: :eek:
wow! great work!!!
Thanks for sharing, I can see the inside very well! It's a great help! |
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| gychang |
| quote: | Originally posted by wixy
Francesco, thought you might be interested in a pic of the 208esigma cabinet, that I am currently building for fe206e's based on scottmoose's and other's recommendation.
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would very much like know your opinion on the sound, and also picture of the finished product...
gychang |
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| es44 |
| quote: | Originally posted by gychang
would very much like know your opinion on the sound, and also picture of the finished product...
gychang |
Me too. I've loved the look of those cabinets since the first time i saw them.
Unfortunaltely i'm not a woodworker, so it seems i have to "outsource" the wood-job, but i have a feeling, that they are worth the expence.
Really nice job wixy :)
best regards
Ebbe |
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