| xpikon |
Hi 2 all.. i m in my final sem of electronics engr.
My project is to generate electrical power using solar energy.
I want to have an inverter circuit (for 500W, 220VAC) using SG3525. The one I got is from an Yougoslavian website. The discription is written there but I cant understand that neither can translate through an online web translator. I am attaching that circuit in this post. So if any1 can understand it plz help to me to get it. Also if any1 have better circuit than it (but in working condition) so plz provide me. |
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| ifrythings |
Here's a working one all you have to change is the winding ratio to suite your needs.
The one above looks ok but with out trying it I can't tell you for sure. |
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| xpikon |
Thats i have seen b4...but it is ckt for SMPS....
See, what i m doing is getting 12V DC from solar pannel...then charge the battery (Deep-cycle) and then input the battery's output voltage to an inverter(500W,220VAC)...
For this kind of scenerio....if u can give me ckt...then plz do it....
The ckt which i attach in the above post is taken from
http://www.mikroelektronika.co.yu/d...roj/1broj12.htm
but as u can see there it is not in english.....i know its not ur job but if u (or any1) can able to translate that language into english plz tell me that way.......coz they have explain it also...
hope u now understand the situation |
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| N-Channel |
Xpikon:
Here is a schematic of a 2.5kW DC-AC Inverter. This is nearly the same basic schematic used in almost all DC-AC Inverters. Obviously, there are always small variations. As you can see, there are actually two stages: the 12V to 165V DC-DC boost converter, and the 60Hz Modified sinewave H-Bridge.
For your applications, you will need to connect in series, all 8 of the secondaries from the DC-DC converter section (resulting in ~330VDC) , changing the diodes to 800V devices, & filter caps to 400V units. Then, you will adjust the frequency from 60Hz to 50Hz.
As mentioned, this is a 2.5kW inverter. At 120VAC, this is just over 20A, but for 240VAC, this should be ~10A, enough for your stated needs.
Hope this helps you in the right direction.
Steve
Here is the control stage........ |
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| N-Channel |
....And here is the power stage. As you can see, one TL494 is running at high frequency for the DC-DC converter, and the other TL494 is running at 120Hz for the DC-AC section.
Realize that you are asking with regards to the SG3525, but this schematic should be adaptable from the '494 to the '3525. |
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| audiovista |
I can translate the text. Let me know if you found another solution and how urgent it is (next few days are hectic for me).
Long time ago I designed almost identical circuit, with the same chip. The SG3525 is very easy to work with, circuit is simple and reliable.
Boris |
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| m-tech |
There is no Yugoslavia any more.
Article is written in Serbian language.
The circuit is very simple.
P1 is for adjusting output voltage.
P2 is for adjusting output frequency.
Output of the inverter is between 0 and 300V connection on the transformer ( in this case SD pin on SG3525 is pulled high ).
Connection 0-220 is for Charging battery mode ( SD pin on SG3525 must be pulled down to ground, for shutting down inverter ).
I hope you understand me.
:) |
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| audiovista |
| Hey m-tech...you have the wrong flag under the user name, check out mine ;) |
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| xpikon |
Hello!!!!
Thx for helping me......
N-Channel........u have done a gr8 job....but plz dont mind i cant understand that ckt as it is very difficult and also i have no time to design this kind of ckt....and as i said plz dont mind coz if i m not using it ....may b some other person will try it...
audiovista......as u said that u cant translate the text......plz do it ASAP coz i badly need it.....that site has discription [ moderators plz understand this situation i m not advertising the site....i m just trying get help ]
m-tech......thx for providing the information.....i m slodering the ckt now as Orcad doesnt provide the simulation [if u know how can i simulate plz tell me] then i'll findout whether u r right/wrong...then tell u....
Thx all of u.....plz read ur individual msgs....n reply then
XPIKON |
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| audiovista |
| I'm done with the translation, I sent you an email. |
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| xpikon |
| hi.....plz send me e-mail on the above address...i m waiting |
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| audiovista |
Sorry, I was out for a couple of days.
I sent you an email.
Keep us posted on your progress, send some pics, etc.
Good luck,
Boris |
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| xpikon |
thank you bro...thank you so much............dont worry as my project update I'' keep updating it on the forum so it would be helpful for others also.............and yes i'll ask for help if I need further...
Thank You once again |
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| audiovista |
| You're very welcome. Glad I could help! |
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| aliazhar |
| quote: | Originally posted by N-Channel
Xpikon:
Here is a schematic of a 2.5kW DC-AC Inverter. This is nearly the same basic schematic used in almost all DC-AC Inverters. Obviously, there are always small variations. As you can see, there are actually two stages: the 12V to 165V DC-DC boost converter, and the 60Hz Modified sinewave H-Bridge.
For your applications, you will need to connect in series, all 8 of the secondaries from the DC-DC converter section (resulting in ~330VDC) , changing the diodes to 800V devices, & filter caps to 400V units. Then, you will adjust the frequency from 60Hz to 50Hz.
As mentioned, this is a 2.5kW inverter. At 120VAC, this is just over 20A, but for 240VAC, this should be ~10A, enough for your stated needs.
Hope this helps you in the right direction.
Steve
Here is the control stage........ |
i came across this thread by searching the forum...
i've been looking for inverter chematic, and here i've found exactly what i needed...
i do hve this inverter and i am despretly trying to modify it...
what i need is 44v ac out of this inverter.....
i've tried to adjust these variable but the most i can get is 65 volts....i have even tried to put more value resistor in it, but it does'nt go beyond 65v...
is there anything else/midification i can do to get 44v out of thi8s inverter ?
do u have any more similar type of inverter schematic (for reference)?
can u guide me for the midification neede for 44v?
thanks again |
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| luka |
Hi Steve
Do you have picture from inside of that invverter? |
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| N-Channel |
| No, Luka. But I will take some later today and post them, if time allows. I think the idea of series-ing the secondaries in order to force equal current-sharing is ingenious. It also allows for heavier-duty winding of all secondaries in case the output will need to supply lots of current (G.T. 6A). |
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| areza |
| hmm… 2.5kw !!... sweet, really like to se the pictures, guess removing voltage feedback or using opto-feedback and using a pairs of chopping transformer for h-bridge driver would not affect its function at all, very nice design indeed. thanks for sharing. |
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| EWorkshop1708 |
WOW :eek:
The IRF1404 MOSFETs used in that inverter are 202A each! TO-220!
Very beefy power supply |
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| N-Channel |
Luka et. al.,
Here are some pics I took this afternoon. Here is the Xfmr Section..... |
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| N-Channel |
| ...and here is another shot of the Xfmrs....... |
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| N-Channel |
| ....and one of the control & output sections........... |
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| N-Channel |
....and one of the overall inside........
Enjoy |
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| luka |
Hi
Very nice placement of trafos, I like that and thanks for photos |
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| N-Channel |
| No problem. :) Sorry it took so long. |
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| EWorkshop1708 |
| Thanks for the nice pics!!! |
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| megajocke |
| Nice pictures! :) I like the size of those battery terminals... What size are the ETD cores? |
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| aliazhar |
These cores are ERL-35
excellent performance cores....i am using them in my smps. |
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| odnaizutra |
| very nice work inside! |
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| Tolik |
| Steve, you are a king... |
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| areza |
| i m using h-bridge part with some mods with good result, simple and less expensive compare to using 2 x ir2xxx , if u get spikes , use some dc bus and phase snubber |
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| N-Channel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tolik
Steve, you are a king... |
Tolik-
Thanks! Just passing on some good stuff (I hope). I would like to use this platform as the basis for a 2.5kW Sinewave output. The DC-DC Boost section looks stout enough (though I would replace the three 220mF 200V caps (there's room on the board for four) with four 330- or 390mF 200V caps, just to give it a little stiffer DC bus.
To do this, I would:
1) Re-clock the 60Hz oscillator to 60kHz, modulating it at 60Hz
2) Then filter it by a big L-C filter to remove the 60kHz content, thus leaving a nice clean 60Hz sinewave out. |
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| Tolik |
| quote: | | Re-clock the 60Hz oscillator to 60kHz, modulating it at 60Hz |
This is the best idea. :smash: I`ts eliminating 60Hz output inverter, with all additional heat dissipation,& additional noice.
| quote: | | Just passing on some good stuff (I hope). |
You can to be sure about it ! |
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| luka |
Hi
Don't you think, not for a second that this is easy, this will require big LC filter and pretty good one...ok sure there won't be much trouble to stop 60kHz, but depends how much you will let it be on output...But it is still good idea anyway |
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| N-Channel |
Luka-
Yeah that's the idea. Once at work, I tore apart a Xantrex Prosine 1800 (when no-one was looking :D ) to see what was inside. Aside from a TON of control electronics, mcontrollers, support ICs, and other BIG components, I saw some pretty big L-C components used to recover the 60Hz component of the output signal, so I'm not in so much shock as you would expect, when dealing with a 60Hz low-pass filter rated for 2.5kW.
Steve |
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| luka |
Hi Steve
I know you wouldn't be, you probaly seen a lot by now...i'm just saying it wouldn't be small anymore like for amps, of filters on smps's...but still I see it as one big amp playiing 60Hz...hmm maybe you could make it play music to :D |
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| arif |
| Nice circuit , Thanks a lot |
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| N-Channel |
| I'm wondering if there might be a schematic or two out there for any of the Xantrex ProSine series of Inverters..... :rolleyes: |
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| areza |
N-Channel
on post 37 you said about Xantrex Prosine inverter , i like to know few things , how big those L-C filters are, what type of core and topology it use, what type of semiconductor, its very interesting to learn that the Xantrex Prosine has few control electronics for a true sine wave inverter, thank you |
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| N-Channel |
Hi areza,
I cannot say- I literally had it open for only a minute. I wasn't kidding- I really did take this this thing apart when no one was looking, seriously! :D This was someone else's project, and I wanted to leave no footprints behind.... :devilr: I had to hurry. I did see a couple of big blue toroids (like 3.00" o.d.) and some big caps, but no values. No visual part #'s for the BIG output MOSFETs, though I suspect they might have even been IGBTs.
Cheers,
Steve |
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| DigitalJunkie |
| quote: | Originally posted by N-Channel
I'm wondering if there might be a schematic or two out there for any of the Xantrex ProSine series of Inverters..... :rolleyes: |
Give a shout on some of the off-grid forums and stuff.
www.fieldlines.com is one I know of.
Somebody just might have a schematic.
If all else fails,you could try contacting Xantrex,or one of the other manufacturers...I'm not 100% sure they'd let go of the schematics though. :rolleyes: |
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| areza |
while i was looking for a schematics for Xantrex ProSine i found this link for a true sine wave inverter built on class d , i have a question to all , can i use one driver transformer on the place of these ir21834 ,
http://www.s4wsbox.com/?q=node/31 |
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| EWorkshop1708 |
This 2.5KW TL494 inverter that was posted..........
Is it a square wave output? I'm not sure sine can be made with TL494. |
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| N-Channel |
E-
No. It is a modified sinewave, meaning that it is essentially a square wave with some fixed amount of dead-time inserted to roughly, and I mean roughly, approximate a sinewave. Still contains lots of high-order harmonics which some PFC power supplies and other sensitive electronics really don't like.
Steve |
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| areza |
Hi Steve,
is it possible to set the duty cycle for the H-bridge low as 10% ? or what duty cycle you have at you end, thanks |
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| N-Channel |
10% not too good. Tha narrow duty cycle could cause high voltage spikes if load is suddenly removed.
I owuld say about 70-75% duty dydle should be good.
Steve |
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| golam |
Dear N-Channel,
Thank you very much for the beautiful idea and pictures and schematics. I did not have this idea that small cores can be utilized for making kw ratings inverter, rater I used bigger sized core. Thank you again for making my task easier.
You have made this modified sine wave with discreet ics and it is appreciatable. But for sine wave inverter, it is very difficult to make it with discreet ics. If you want to make a pure sine wave inverter, it will be easier to make with micro controller. I want to share some of my experiences with you. |
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| golam |
Sine wave Inverter with Pic Microcontroller.
Dear N - Channel ,thanks again. I want to share some of my experiences with you regarding making inverter with Micro controller
Modified Sine Wave Inverter with Pic 12F675.
It is very easy to make modified Sine Wave Inverter with Microcontroller and I used tiny 8 Pin Pic 12F675 which is as big as a 555 timer. Out of 8 Pin, it is having 6 input /output pin. It is having 4 MHz internal oscillator which provides 1 MHz machine cycle, that is 1 machine cycle in 1 microsecond(4 MHz/4). It is having internal 10 Bit AdC with multichannel which can be used for line sense/ feed back. It is having 1 internal Analogue Comparator, with programmable internal voltage reference which can be used for comparing any Analogue Signal. It costs only U.S. $ 0.75. It a risc (reduced instruction set controller) type micro controller having only 35 instructions.
I used 2 pins for giving signal to the inputs of 2 ir2181/L6385 mosfet drivers. Signal is given on 1 pin for 8 mili second, 2 mili second off, again signal to other pin for 8 mili second and 2 mili second off. continue this and you will get output of a modified sine wave(50 HZ) with 20% dead time and this modified sine wave is good for all household resistive and inductive load. I used internal ADC to monitor output to stabilize it through feedback. Comparator can also be used as the output of it can be toggled with program.
If you consider discreet ic it is very easy with Pic micro. I do program in Assembly Language. Next time Pure Sine wave with Pic Micro. |
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| golam |
Sine wave inverter with Pic Microcontroller
Making sine wave inverter is very difficult with discreet ics. It is easier with Microcontroller if some one is aware regarding Programming and the modalities of sine wave and the use of parts in high frequency application. Before indulging in making sine wave inverter, one should have clear idea regarding the followings:
Low ESR (equivalent series resistance) Capacitors, Inductance and Inductor(not PHD type knowledge, just workable knowledge), Ferrite Core Transformer characteristics (following internet design only may not be useful all the time), thorough knowledge regarding Resistor,MOV,Snubber Circuit, High frequency high speed diode, transzorb diode, surge suppression modalities, decoupling capacitors and last but not the least, low order LC filter, as this will convert your output wave into a sine wave.
No body should mind - this is just a reminder and not an effort to teach any body as I know that most of those who attend this Forum are more knowledgeable than me.
For making sine wave inverter, I used Pic 18F1320 which is a real gem. It is having total 18 Pins. Out of which, 14 are input/output. It is having 8 MHZ internal oscillator which can be programmed as low as 31kHz. Outside crystal oscillator of 10 MHz can be used and internal PLL will make this frequency 4 times faster - that is 40 MHz. So, it is having 10 MHz instruction cycle- that is, each pulse/instruction cycle takes only 100 Nano Second to perform.
It is having 4k word (16 bit long) flash program memory,256 byte RAM and 256 Byte EEPROM data memory. It is having 10 bit multi channel Internal ADC, 2 Comparators, Serial Communication modalities, single instruction cycle multiplication capability and a very interesting Module for making sine wave - ECCP.
This Hardware Enhanced Capture Compare and Pulse Width Modulation System is provided by Microchip Company for making Push-Pull, Half Bridge and Full Bridge circuits.
This ECCP module is assigned 4 Pins of the micro controller for making Full Bridge Circuit by giving signal to the 4 pins of 2 Mosfet/Igbt Drivers to control 4 mosfet/igbt(2 high side-2 low side).
Now you have to make a sine wave table to be stored in flash program memory. PIc 18F1320 will execute the sine table, comparators will be used for feedback, ADC for error correction. I have used 50KHz frequency. According to the Sine Wave Table, the Controller brought out the wave and with the help of Low Order LC Filter, the output wave is converted to sine wave as with the help of the Low Order LC filter, the Modulating 50KHz signals are De-Modulated to 50 HZ Sine Wave (removing multi order harmonics).
It is very easy. Ha Ha!! But you have to know to program the PIC and also have to know to make Sine Table, error Table and Feed back Modalities. If you know this, you can make sine wave inverter of any capacity as N- Channel has shown to make Big One with Small cores.
N- Channel, you are as good as N-Channel Mosfets.
Thank you N -Channel.
In the next posting, I will let you know the modalities of Programming, Creating Sign Table, Use of LC filter etc. so that you can be encouraged to move to Microcontroller. My favorite is
PIC Microcontroller. With it you can make any thing possible. I love you PIC- very much. |
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| N-Channel |
| quote: | Originally posted by golam
Sine wave inverter with Pic Microcontroller
..... If you know this, you can make sine wave inverter of any capacity as N- Channel has shown to make Big One with Small cores.
N- Channel, you are as good as N-Channel Mosfets.
Thank you N -Channel......... |
Golam,
Thank You for the kind remarks. That's kinda why I chose my screen name. Nothin' like the ubitiquous N-Channel MOSFET to get the job done.
OK, nuff blowin' my own horn, on with the thread.....
The pics of the inverter I showed are of a commercial unit I came across- an AIMS 2.5kW modified sinewave inverter- I did not build this myself. I just thought grabbing a few pics of it to help explaining the whole multiple small transformers thing for multi-kW power levels was a pretty good idea.
At this time, I am trying to do a PC board for a DC-DC boost converter (+12V in +19.5V out) for my Dell Laptop. PWM Controller is SG3525, and MOSFETS are a pair of MTP75N06s. Inductor is would bi-filar (as an autoformer) for a 2-F interleaved flyback topology. I know circuit works, but I'll keep you all posted on PC board progress.
Cheers,
Steve |
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| golam |
N-Channel,
Thank you again. I thought that idea is yours. But it does not matter. You have put forward to us the idea of utilizing small transformers for making bigger one and for that you require million thanks. It is really really a very useful idea and I am greatful to you. Actually, ideas are money, if you can utilize that idea on ground.
golam |
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| RX5 |
golam,
if you used a PIC for generating sines, did you use two outputs (to drive mosfets//push-pull mode?) |
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| naseerak |
AOL
Golam
I read ur post in this thread having made ur modified sinewave inverter with pic. I will thankfull of u if u send me the code and schematics of ur inverter I am living in pakistan northwest reagion and everyday milatry strikes and bombings are disrupting our power supply so i badly need it
regards naseerak |
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| golam |
Naseerak,
If pic based linear type modified sinewave inverter fulfill your requirement, I will provide you the schematic and code in Assembly Language. SMPS based sine wave/modified sine wave type detail will not be provided to you as that is a trade secret. I am too busy with Pic based products and having very less time to spare. However, I will make some time by tomorrow or day after tomorrow to post the schematic and code. Please let me know whether linear type will fulfill your requirement or not.
Thanks. |
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| golam |
RX5,
For pure sine wave inverter, you require 2 stage configuration- first boost section, from 12/24v dc to 350v dc and for that you require 2 pins of Pic micro controller to drive mosfets in push- pull topology. For converting 350v dc to 220/230v sine AC, you require a full bridge circuit and for that you require 4 pins if you use Unipolar SPWM routine or 2/4 pins if you use Bipolar SPWM routine.
Thanks. |
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| naseerak |
AOL
Golam
Thanks for your offer I will difinitely go for the linear one as switch mode will be too difficult to made because of parts and expertise however i have a pic burner and knowleledge of programming.
Kindly send me the linear one as i have to travel 70 km to peshawar to get to the internet.
my mail add. is katozai@yahoo.com
i will recieve a mail notification on my mobile if you send it.
regards |
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| naseerak |
AOL
Golam!
Sorry Golam you seem to have forgotton your promise i m impatiently waiting |
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| areza |
| naseerak , you are westing your time after a pic controlled linear modified sinewave/squarewave inverter, a sg3525/4 or tl494 even a 555 timer can do this short of job very well and there is thousand of schematics with description out there in internet, in face this technology is more then 20 years old , |
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| golam |
Dear naseerak,
Sorry for being late. I was too busy and that's why was late. By tomorrow, you will get schematic and code.
You can do it by many ways but stick to micro controller and gradually you can move forward and can go for sophisticated and advanced program. Micro controller is the ultimate future in electronics. Please don't consider it at per with 555 or any other pwm ic as the capability of micro controller is far superior.
With thanks. |
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| TechGuy |
| quote: | Originally posted by golam
For pure sine wave inverter, you require 2 stage configuration- first boost section, from 12/24v dc to 350v dc and for that you require 2 pins of Pic micro controller to drive mosfets in push- pull topology. For converting 350v dc to 220/230v sine AC, you require a full bridge circuit and for that you require 4 pins if you use Unipolar SPWM routine or 2/4 pins if you use Bipolar SPWM routine.
Thanks. |
FWIW: You can also skip the boost section and drive the primary with 12/24V using the transformer to step up the voltage . You use a PWM sine input to drive a full bridge. This reduces the part count and should also increase the efficiency slightly.
The advantage of going with a seperate boost circuit is if you plan to power the inverter from both a battery bank and the AC Mains. However if this is the case it would be better to boost the battery voltage to 170\340 VDC using a transformer than a buck boost circuit to maintain isolation between the batteries and the mains. If you are powering using the mains it would be a good idea to synchronize your PWM sine controller with the AC mains, Obviously it would not be wise for your PWM controller to be outputing at the Peak of the output sine wave, when the AC mains voltage is at the zero voltage crossing point. It would make sense to use a PFC controller on the AC Mains rectification circuit to accomidate brown-outs and small out of synchronization errors.
. |
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| naseerak |
AOL
I was shocked to see your attachments in my email. as you promised to send me the schematic with pic12f675 having feedback mpwm the kind of schematic you have send me is already in my possesion but with an wxternal adc which scared me for the part count me i wonder what made you to refrtain from your promise.
Regards
Naseerak |
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| escobedo35 |
Great job!! N-Channel, Very nice design. your inverter looks very clean and i see an elegant design you know, to use a lot transformers make hard the pcb routing, and the component placement. Congratulations!
I am trying to build a 3.0kW. and i think you can help me. In the photos i see you are using an aluminum extruded case. i was thinking to use some thing like that too, but i have not found where to buy it here in Mexico.
Is it possible that you send me the contact where to get this kind of case or the manufacturer name?.
it would be so helpful to me.
What cupper thickness do you suggest to use for the PCB, and one issue that has been hard to me is the transformer calculation and suitable core selection. What is the AL for the CORE you are using.
Can you suggest me some software or tool to design transformers ?.
i would like to contact you. i am leaving you my email:
escobedo35@yahoo.es
best regards. |
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| N-Channel |
Hi Escobedo,
Thanks for the kind comments on the inverter. I hate to rain on your parade, but I did not build it. It is a commercial unit I was given to fix, and I was unable to find the fault. I will try to answer your questions, though.
Since I did not make the unit, I do not know where to get the extrusion, other than going to the manufacturers, like Thermalloy, Aavid, wakefield, and other heatsink manufacturers. Or, you could find a junked inverter, gut it, and use its heatsink for your unit.
For the transformers, at least when I do my own units, I use the procedure from Chryssis' book, with support from Brown's book. A little Pressman in there, too.
For the copper, I'm not sure of the thickmess, but for the low-voltage, high-current section, Copper bus bars are used. Not sure of the thickness, but I would think at least 1/16th", or 1/8th" inch thick.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Steve |
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