| Power to the masses, how do you wire? - Click HERE for Original Thread |
| mikee55 |
Hi all, a quickie for ya. Whats the best technique and why, please?
I have 2 identical lengths of 8AWG to feed the juice to my sub amp. Straight from the battery plus and minus teminals, straight down the sills, straight to the amp.
Or should I have one length from the plus to the amp and a short length straight to chassis?
I assumed for the best connection would be the two equal lengths.
Whats best for a sub amp?
Cheers all
mikee55:D |
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| Perry Babin |
The best connection is going to be the one with the lowest resistance. Since the chassis likely has less resistance than 15ft of 8g wire, I'd suggest using the chassis as the ground return path. Scrape the paint/primer/undercoat to the bare metal (both sides of the floor pan), use a heavy ring terminal and a 5/16" or 3/8" bolt, nut and lock-washer for the ground.
You should check the ground straps/wires between the body of the vehicle and the engine block. When the alternator is charging, this is where the greatest current will flow (for the ground path).
You should also make sure that the wire from the battery negative terminal to the body (or to the engine block) is in good condition. |
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| mikee55 |
Done that, sounds better too.
Cheers Perry Babin
Mike:D |
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| AndrewT |
Hi Perry,
is there an earth cable from alternator to engine?
If so, then double it up to help keep the battery voltage the same as the alternator sense voltage on the voltage controller.
At high charge rates the alternator sense wire (internal to the alternator) is in the wrong place and the battery gradually discharges. |
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| Perry Babin |
| There's no need for a ground strap from the alternator to the engine block. The alternator is generally bolted to the engine with 3 heavy bolts. |
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| mikee55 |
Andrew T, hi there. Sir if you are telling us something about the sense voltage on the voltage controller, this would imply that you have knowledge of such things. Most people know what the alternator does and what it looks like etc. From say a 17 year old person(UK) that had just learnt to drive and is compitent in doing basic repair to his/her car to almost a mechanic, mature driver who repairs his/her car to save garage bills, should know that if the alternator is bolted to the engine(obviously) and the engine block itself earthed. Then any thing bolted to the engine is also earthed, so what are you going on about???:angel:
Not being rude, sir because my Vauxhall Corsa has an earth lead from the battery to the engine block, another to the bulk head and a third to the solenoid on the starter motor!!!! And yet the starter-motor is bolted to the engine and the solenoid is bolted to that. I have yet to investigate the alternator wiring. I have a haynes manual with the wiring diagram in it. I don't often use it, but I'll dig it out.
I also notice an improvement in the car's responsiveness, it starts better too.(By the way its a diesel-probably irrelavent).Seems like the battery was in need of a charge, constantly, being a heavey load on the alternator. Previously when the battery's been flat, and I've had to get a charger on it, this loading of the alternator has been removed and the car's nippy again.
So before we just dismiss it for the sake of three bolts, maybe we need to investigate further.
Cheers Mike:) |
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| Perry Babin |
I have seen braided cables connecting the starter to the solenoid. I'd be surprised to see the starter grounded to the engine block with a strap or wire but I learn many new things every day. This would simply add to the list.
Some alternators have sense wires that go to a distribution point. I know GM/Delco has them and I think Ford uses something similar. A few times, I've seen the sense wire on a Delco alternator get loose/corroded and the charging voltage went over ~17v. |
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| Clipped |
i ran a positive and negative cable once to the back of my car.
it (the negative) ended up beng an extra load and actually bogged my alternator down.
With a strong engine and healthy alternator you may not detect this, but with a flimsy jap engine and a 65 amp alt, i was able to tell.
some engines have to use brackets to mount the alt to engine, depending on the metal used for the bracket, will determine the conductivity of ground to engine block. |
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| AndrewT |
Hi,
the alternator and dynamo before them are usually mounted on an adjustable bracket to allow the "fan belt" to run at the correct tension.
The mountings are often made of a compliant material that insulates the charger from the engine.
If clean and well bolted AND if the alternator has an internal earth to the bracket then all is well. Alternator to engine brackets are usually made of steel or cast iron and these rust. Have you ever seen a service manual that states one should clean and apply a rust preventor to the alternator bracket?
Alternators that use a separate earthing lead (I have had two cars with them fitted) or that have corroded bracketry will benefit from good, secure, low resistance earthing.
Try measuring the voltage drop from live terminal on the alternator to the live terminal on the battery. do likewise from alternator body/earth terminal to battery earth lug.
The voltage drop along each of these two routes can be hundreds of millivolts (>100mV). Good supply and return leads can reduce this to tens of millivolts, very good to below 10mV.
Now do the same on your headlight bulbs. High voltage drops along supply and return leads will significantly reduce the light output of your headlights.
Don't bother doing this to your car audio supplies, it just makes for more pollution of the air waves. |
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| mikee55 |
The car is 94 M plate and my mum was the previous owner. Sh tells me the Alternator died so she had to get a recon. Damn things are expensive, because they have a vacuum unit mounted on them for the brakes. The car has always suffered a flat battery problem, she was already on the second battery when I bought the car. Still under warranty, I phoned the people she bought the batttery off and told them it still wasn't right and promptly recieved the third battery. I then found a Faulty boot(Trunk) light had not been turning off and had been draining the batteries over the years. I thought that was the end of my woes, winter starting has been a night mare. I've bought new glo-plugs, and just recently had to borrow a spare battery off some one. This one I'm using has 380 cold cranking amps and I travel 21 miles every week day, turning the key 7 times a day, not to mention the need for headlights, wipers and the usual brake lights and indicators etc. The weekends and holidays I do more miles. I don't play music loud, just enough to drain engine and road noise/kids. I'm assuming that I'm never gonna recharge the battery.
| quote: | | extra load and actually bogged my alternator down |
This is what I've been experiencing too, but I think its been elimated now.
I'm trying to find a cheap place to sell me the right battery. Halfords want £80 sterling.Big bucks at the mo.
Nevermind, its better than it was.:)
Cheers Mike |
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| Clipped |
M? as in nissan big M?
My nissan sentra had a really really really bad ground situation.
I grounded everything.
engine to transmission
engine to right shock tower
transmission to right shock tower
extra ground from batt to shock tower
extra positive from alt to batt
alt case to engine to transmission
engine to left shock tower
transmission to left shock tower
cable connecting left and right shock tower
i went crazy grounding , but after all was done, this cars voltage doesnt budge.
i admit its overkill, but i had alot of extra wire and free time on my hands.
if you cant find big enough lug terminals, you can cut the ring so its a 'U' and slip it over the bolt |
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| mikee55 |
Hi Clipped, 'M' plate as in registration, the year the vehicle was registered as being sold to the first customer. It helps authorities with their info on vehicle owner, address any involvement with theft crime etc. Also because it gives its age, it helps when ordering parts or selling it to whoever.
cheers mike :) |
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| Bad silver |
It might be completly off topic, but that Sentra and v6 Ford Probe from mid 90s use the same alternator. The only difference is that Ford's alternar has pulley with 5 grooves and sentra's pulley has 4 grooves. I installed 150A Stinger Ford Probe alty on my car and it was direct bolt on. Even Sentra's belt fit derectly - just one free groove though due to pulley being wider. The width of individual grooves is completly identical too.
If you are looking for alt update, just buy one for v6 Ford Probe wich can be had a lot cheaper than custom-built Nissan's alty. I got mine for just $90 shipped - killer update, if you ask me! |
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| Bad silver |
While you are talking about charging system can anyone help me to figure out how to wire the idiot light from voltage regulator? I found factory wire that turns on "low charge” light on instrument panel when grounded.
I can’t figure out what kind of signal my voltage regulator sends to “I” output when alternator is not working. When I disable the alternator (unplugging field sensor) on running engine, it neither outputs + nor – signal? :confused:
I have everything wired already, but just can’t figure out how to get “Idiot light” output running. This is the voltage regulator that I use:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EXTE...emZ330098438855 |
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| Clipped |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bad silver
It might be completly off topic, but that Sentra and v6 Ford Probe from mid 90s use the same alternator. The only difference is that Ford's alternar has pulley with 5 grooves and sentra's pulley has 4 grooves. I installed 150A Stinger Ford Probe alty on my car and it was direct bolt on. Even Sentra's belt fit derectly - just one free groove though due to pulley being wider. The width of individual grooves is completly identical too.
If you are looking for alt update, just buy one for v6 Ford Probe wich can be had a lot cheaper than custom-built Nissan's alty. I got mine for just $90 shipped - killer update, if you ask me! |
dude man, that is one KILLER find !!!
does your sentra have the GA16de or the carbureted engine?
so is your alt a ford oem product, or a 'Stinger" alternator, because i dont think stingers are only $90...but if it is coooool! |
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| Bad silver |
yes, ford probe 2.5-3.0L v6 uses the same alternator as ga16de engine. The OEM though is 80ams I belive. Just look around on ebay for stinger alternators for Ford Probe V6. They pop up once a month in $100 range. I think Mazda v6 626 form mid 90s might use the same alternator but I am not sure on that. The ford probe alty is 100% bolt on, 0 modifications. ;)
I made this great discovery just by eyeboling. :D |
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| Bad silver |
| I also suspect that Dodge or GM might have used the same alternator inteface on some of their engines. I will post model # of my Stinger alty, so you can find it more easily. |
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| Clipped |
| cool thanks man... |
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| Bad silver |
I was looking for that # in my ebay history, but could not find it because they deleted everything. :mad: There is a serial number on the alternator itself, but it's about 1’’ form the radiator, so can’t read it or take a picture of it unless I remove the alty. The best I could do is stuck my camera in there and take some close ups. That particular stinger was in white color and with disk-like fan behind the pulley. Just buy high output alternator (150/200A) on ebay that has geometry that I described on the picture. The chances are it is going to
be direct bolt on. :D
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| Clipped |
:D
thanks for the detailed drawings and pictures, its going to help alot especially when buying that alt.
how does your car run after you put in in? |
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| Bad silver |
I haven't noticed any difference; even idle speed has not changed and still run 100 mph on a highway all day. The difference between those two alternators is about 2hp.
This is EXACTLY how your alternator is supposed to look.( note the position of output connection must be on the left side because on the right side there is too little space due to hot manifold)
Check out this action, ask seller to tell you X and Y dimensions of that alternator:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALTE...5072QQrdZ1
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| cliff |
| quote: | Originally posted by Bad silver
yes, ford probe 2.5-3.0L v6 uses the same alternator as ga16de engine. The OEM though is 80ams I belive. Just look around on ebay for stinger alternators for Ford Probe V6. They pop up once a month in $100 range. I think Mazda v6 626 form mid 90s might use the same alternator but I am not sure on that. The ford probe alty is 100% bolt on, 0 modifications. ;)
I made this great discovery just by eyeboling. :D |
The Ford Probe has exactly the same running gear as the Mazda 626 of the same period, being built on the same Mazda line in Michegan. This just after Ford bought Mazda in 1999. |
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| Clipped |
160 amps!!!
now thats what im talkin bout'....! |
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| Bad silver |
| Be careful though, just because that alternator looks exactly the same, it might not fit. You must know X and Y distances before you buy it. Also, most HO alternators use external voltage regulators that can be had for another $10, so that you can adjust your voltage from 12-16+V with a screwdriver. ;) But the more you boost your voltage the more it starts to swing when your amps hit hard notes. I blew one headlight bulb and boiled my battery while playing with voltage regulator at night. :o |
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| Clipped |
yeah, i had the x/y axis problem with an alt i bought for my old car, the mounting brackets differed by 3 millimeters...
its insane to have a 160 amp alt in these little nisssans...talk about a sleeper. :D |
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