| Babowana |
Thanks. I was waiting for this, without sleeping.
But, I could not open the web site -- problem on my side.
I will send e-mail to Lee for a copy.
:darkside: |
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| Nelson Pass |
If you are running windows, you might try the "save target as.."
since it's a pdf file.
:cool: |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Babowana
Thanks. I was waiting for this, without sleeping.
But, I could not open the web site -- problem on my side.
I will send e-mail to Lee for a copy.
:darkside: |
if you have problem ,just say-I'll send it to ya |
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| Babowana |
Again, thanks for the help.
But, the server is blocked here for certain reason I don't know.
I will try to get it from Lee . . .
:) |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Babowana
Again, thanks for the help.
But, the server is blocked here for certain reason I don't know.
I will try to get it from Lee . . .
:) |
just sending to ya |
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| Babowana |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
just say-I'll send it to ya
|
Hi Choky,
Yes, I need your help for one copy to my e-address. Best Regards |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Babowana
Hi Choky,
Yes, I need your help for one copy to my e-address. Best Regards |
shrinked and sent |
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| jacco vermeulen |
Oh dear, i'm having F4-X images on my retina.
Welcome back, Master. |
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| Zen Mod |
hehe
1 hour without single post.................
seems that someone practice reading.............mumbling "how many bloody IRFs I have in my drawer........oh....why 9240?............."
:clown: |
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| Babowana |
Thanks, both Choky and Lee.
I got it ~ ^^
:darkside: |
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| dw8083 |
Will this amp be offered commercially? If so how much?
Pretty cool!
When does te group buy start for boards? :D
-David |
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| apassgear |
F4!!! a very attractive circuit. Mmmmm… first time I see Nelson using a TL431…interesting application for that 3 legged bug.
:cool: |
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| GRollins |
In an attempt to short circuit the inevitable questions:
--Yes, you can increase the bias as long as you have sufficient heat sinking/power supply/etc.
--Yes, you can decrease the bias.
--Yes, you can substitute the usual MOSFETs for the IRF outputs.
--Yes, you can substitute the input JFETs, but the field of candidates is much more limited.
--I don't have the datasheets for the input JFETs with me at the moment, but I don't think you're going to want to increase the rail voltage much. The outputs can take it, but the inputs can't. If someone knows where to find 100V low noise, complementary JFETs with reasonable current capability, I'm all ears.
--Yes, you can decrease the number of output MOSFETs, but watch the heat dissipation per device.
--Yes, you can increase the number of output MOSFETs, but bandwidth and distortion will suffer as a result--though not fatally.
What'd I miss?
Grey |
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| Babowana |
| quote: | Originally posted by GRollins
What'd I miss?
|
Yes, you are missing my interest.
I'm a bit tired of doing DIY these days, and busy.
I will not care of any scratch on the surface
as long as there is the original finger-print of Nelson Pass.
What is the retail price for the F4?
Much much higher than 2.5K USD . . . ?
I'm serious!
:darkside: |
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| EUVL |
> I don't have the datasheets for the input JFETs with me at the moment
Identical to 2SK170/2SJ74, only not TO92.
Patrick |
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| juma |
First stage (complementary JFET pair) is just an input buffer and it's not that critical. Any favourite low current buffer stage with appropriate voltage swing capability can be used.
I think that I would build F4 as na integrated amp, in the same box with Aleph L or Aleph P.
In that case the input JFET pair could be left out of the circuit.
2N4736 should probably be 1N4736 (6.8V 1W Zener) |
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| jacco vermeulen |
| quote: | Originally posted by juma
probably be 1N4736 |
General Pass must have had his mind wander off to exotic wave braking shores for a bit longer.
(irish wolfhound playground)
Curious me: what to expect for the rise time of this beauty ? |
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| mpmarino |
This one looks fun.
A couple of things please! Thanks in advance.
I remember seeing a reference that the IRFP140 is a better complement to the IRFP9240 than is the IRFP240. Is this true? Would anyone have spare IRFP9240? I have spare IRFP140 I would like to trade off for 9240. :) maybe we could help each other.
Amongst the guys that know jfets - Please don't be shy in suggesting suitable replacements (and hashing out which is best, and why). I am sure more than myself could benefit in how you come to the conclusions you come to.
heatsink on the jfet?
I promised myself no more amps. This one will be the last:rolleyes:
Thanks Nelson! |
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| adolphe |
| Would this be suitable as an amp for the AKG K1000 headphones? |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by adolphe
Would this be suitable as an amp for the AKG K1000 headphones? |
certainly;
for who's ears?
:devilr: |
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| Vix |
| quote: | Originally posted by mpmarino
I promised myself no more amps. |
Hehehe....I have built ZEN V9 and an F2 lite. Great! Very friendly amps to fullrange speakers. At least I don't need another amp! But...what could be better than a fullranger on the Open Baffle, driven by Zen v9 or F2?
Uhm....you bet-F4 driving big woofers on OB!
But...Yea, no more amps....
Someone on diyaudio once said "Stop pushing my Woo-woo button!"
:D :cool: |
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| Jon Ver Halen |
Very, very nice amp. It has the JFET sweetness, like the F3, but also has push pull control and is direct coupled. An awesome little amp for those you can live with it's limitations (low gain and low power).
If your system does not work with these limitations consider this amp to be a great excuse to build a better pre-amp and get into high efficiency speakers. Yes, it is that good. |
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| Zen Mod |
mebbe yes
mebbe not
( :devilr: probably not)
this variant for my 16E 15"
not btw :
Papa,tnx again .........no more no less than for inspiration ;) |
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| GRollins |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vix
Someone on diyaudio once said "Stop pushing my Woo-woo button!"
|
Push mine, instead...
I have a nearly infinite capacity for 'woo.'
This sort of circuit would work well for headphones, but you could use something like IRF610/IRF9610s for the outputs and lower the bias. Smaller heatsinks, smaller power supply, as well.
Bypassing the input buffer stage will work, but it's hardly going to be a groundbreaking circuit, as it will be pretty nearly the Zen follower circuit. At least this way Nelson is able to publish specs for the circuit. If it did not have the buffer, the performance would be highly variable, depending on the Zout, current capabilities, etc. of the source. Being DIY, we don't really have to worry about such things. We have more control over those variables than the average consumer.
Patrick,
If I remember correctly, the 2SK170/2SJ74 do not have the same voltage ratings, which always struck me as odd, given that they're marketed as complements. At any rate, whichever is lower will be the weak link in the chain. Everything else will be tethered to that one part. I'd love to find 100V JFETs...or even 75V, for that matter...
Of course, I'd like to find a large sack of unmarked $100 bills, too, but that's not going to happen.
Grey |
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| Jozef |
Voltage is almost same as this linestage.
On one PCB maybe ? |
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| mpmarino |
| quote: | | the 2SK170/2SJ74 do not have the same voltage ratings |
I noticed that and wondered how they could be complements?
:confused:
It didn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling:angel: |
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| GRollins |
While the rails are similar, I'm not a big fan of running tubes at reduced voltages.
Grey |
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| jupiterjune |
| quote: | | If it did not have the buffer, the performance would be highly variable, depending on the Zout, current capabilities, etc. of the source |
And what might that look like -- perhaps a phase lag in one channel?
I like the unity gain amp concept--at low listening levels, the output from my preamp has to be attenuated to ridiculously low levels before being fed to my amp.....
This amp lets you bypasses that whole process.
Good ol' P5 in the BZLS might actually work as a good volume control.
JJ |
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| GRollins |
The Gate capacitance of the output MOSFETs is the fly in the ointment. It's big, it's unruly, and it's nonlinear. Quite an ugly beast. By isolating that capacitance from the outside world, the performance of the amp becomes much more predictable. Yes, the input JFETs have Gate capacitance, but an order of magnitude (actually probably more like two orders of magnitude) less. Quite tame by comparison.
If you leave off the JFET buffer, be sure to go for as low a source impedance as you can get and provide as much current as possible.
Basically at that point you're building a whole 'nother circuit, as the output stage is an entirely conventional compementary follower--pretty much an industry standard sort of thing. It will become whatever you use for a front end; an A-75, for instance.
Yes, I'm overlooking the bias dingus. On purpose. You could build this amp with a conventional Vgs multiplier, or a Vbe multiplier, or use diodes, or a CCS and variable resistor, or...
Really, it's the JFET follower front end that's different.
Grey |
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| flg |
Yea:D You mean that bootstrapped TL refrence bissiness??? And he gets almost all that supply voltage to the output too:D
I would go simulate it but, I don't want you to shame me for doing something so disrespectfull to N.P.s work;) |
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| GRollins |
Simulate?!?
Gasp!
Lightnin's gonna strike you, boy!
Grey |
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| flg |
There is something a little confusing here though Grey:confused: The old Class A peak output current rule... That you can get double the queicent current out. Nelson gets more than that???
Dosen't this thing idle at 1.5A or so??? Gets 20V peak to the load??? O.K. thats good for 25Watts out...
But when you drive a 4 ohm load... If you can drive 20Volts out, thats 50 watts like he says but thats 5A pk??? Well beyond the double the idle current addage of old. Does this thing do Class AB for that power level???
Did I miss something??? |
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| Babowana |
Like a mad dog, RRRRRRRed to Reno Hi-Fi, but no F4 there.
RRRRrrrrRRR . . . torn off the drawer and squeezzed into it.
RRrrrrRRRrrr . . . found all from TL431 to the blue LED piece by piece.
RRrrRRRRRR . . . but, missing matched 240/9240s and jfets.
RRrrrrrrrrrrrr . . .
Do you know who has them (matched mosfets and jfets)?
Will give him one spicy bite.
Thanks for info.
:darkside: |
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| jacco vermeulen |
| quote: | Originally posted by juma
In that case the input JFET pair could be left out of the circuit. |
Without the JFET input it would look like a PP output stage for a hybrid tube-MOSFET power amp, such as the one on the picture.
I've tested that output stage, connected to a pre-amp before the tube front end was hooked up.
Adding a buffer and then running the circuit balanced is a really cool idea. Wish i thought of that, as usual. |
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| wuffwaff |
| quote: | Originally posted by flg
There is something a little confusing here though Grey:confused: The old Class A peak output current rule... That you can get double the queicent current out. Nelson gets more than that???
Dosen't this thing idle at 1.5A or so??? Gets 20V peak to the load??? O.K. thats good for 25Watts out...
But when you drive a 4 ohm load... If you can drive 20Volts out, thats 50 watts like he says but thats 5A pk??? Well beyond the double the idle current addage of old. Does this thing do Class AB for that power level???
Did I miss something??? |
Yes,
AB it is.
William |
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| MRupp |
| quote: | | While the rails are similar, I'm not a big fan of running tubes at reduced voltages. |
Yes, but in this case you have a tube designed for low voltage, max. anode voltage for ECC86 is 30V and running them at say 12 V is within their normal operating range. It might not be the best tube for other reasons though .... |
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| steenoe |
| quote: | | I have a nearly infinite capacity for 'woo.' |
Me too:D I can be woo-woo'ed all day with no ill effect, at all. I think it was Metalman who said the "woo-woo- button" thing:)
F4; another genious act of Mr. Pass. Did anyone build this thing yet?
Being a study in simplicity, it shouldn't take long to weld one together;)
Steen:cool: |
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| Nelson Pass |
| quote: | Originally posted by flg
You mean that bootstrapped TL refrence bissiness??? |
There's a bootstrap in the amplifier?
| quote: | Originally posted by wuffwaff
AB it is. |
The calculation goes 1.59A * 2 = 3.18A peak
3.18 * 3.18 *8 = 80 watts peak Class A into 8 ohms
and 40 watts peak into 4 ohms
:cool: |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
Me too:D I can be woo-woo'ed all day with no ill effect, at all. I think it was Metalman who said the "woo-woo- button" thing:)
F4; another genious act of Mr. Pass. Did anyone build this thing yet?
Being a study in simplicity, it shouldn't take long to weld one together;)
Steen:cool: |
who can be faster than you in this?
hehe
you even have pcb pdfs......... |
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| steenoe |
| quote: | | you even have pcb pdfs......... |
And also even have matched IRFP9240's in the drawer, together with a bunch of Toshiba's:D
Steen:) |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
And also even have matched IRFP9240's in the drawer, together with a bunch of Toshiba's:D
Steen:) |
hehe..........you don't have N and P jfet in one case ..........:D :D |
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| Nelson Pass |
Commenting on the particular mis-match of the complementary
types, notice that the distortion is primarily second harmonic
on the amplifier and that the distortion vs power curve looks
just like a classic single-ended amp.
This imparts a particular sonic signature different from the
usual push-pull arrangement where the character is 3rd harmonic.
:cool: |
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| steenoe |
Mr. Pass, that was just, what I needed to hear (read!):D
Steen:) |
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| Babowana |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
Commenting on the particular mis-match of the complementary
types, notice that the distortion is primarily second harmonic
on the amplifier and that the distortion vs power curve looks
just like a classic single-ended amp.
This imparts a particular sonic signature different from the
usual push-pull arrangement where the character is 3rd harmonic.
:cool: |
Thanks, I will go with mismatchd stones as I have had experience
of it with Zen V5. I will re-fill F1 having a bit higher rail voltages.
I would try to adjust R values, if necessary. I might be able to
manage this within few days when I get jfets, not using PCBs, but
applying P2P as usual. ~ ^^
:darkside: |
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| jimmyd53 |
Papa and Jon,
I am curious, since you are the only two who have listened to all the First Watt amps with Lowthers, as to which amp you personally like best ? Thanks.
James |
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| Ipanema |
| quote: | | Commenting on the particular mis-match of the complementary types, notice that the distortion is primarily second harmonicon the amplifier and that the distortion vs power curve looks just like a classic single-ended amp. |
If I prefer more second harmonic, should I use higher mismatches device between PMOS and NMOS?
Mr. Pass, may I know why you prefer to use TL431 in place of the usual Vgs multiplier, which is more common in the push-pull stage with the added benefit of temperature feedback? How does F4 overcome the temperature instability?
I've just completed F2 and SL10. It just sound marvelous driving my Coral Flat 8A and now I'm addicted to build the F4. Thanks a lot Mr. Pass.
:) |
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| Jon Ver Halen |
| quote: | | I am curious, since you are the only two who have listened to all the First Watt amps with Lowthers, as to which amp you personally like best ? |
Aha! Down to the meat of it all. There is no right answer, and it is part dependent on your taste, part on your music, and your source.
The F1 is super clean and dynamic. If your source is lean, your music will be lean. If your source is rich, your music will be rich. It is the real truth machine, with nothing taken out and nothing added. Ruthlessly revealing.
The F2 adds some 2nd harmonic to this. On lean source material this sounds better than the F1. It is putting a little color in your music, and on dry material it is a pleasant addition. Some like that additional color, some do not. Your choice.
The F3 sounds has a very light touch of sweetness. Sounds more like a great tube amp than any solid state amp I have heard, except that it has the same basic tonal characteristics from highs to lows - something most tube amps dream about.
The F4 sounds like a cross between the F1 and the F3. Cleaner than the F2, a touch of sweetness, but the truth is still front and center. I have not heard this amp in my system (yet), so my thoughts about this may change. It is a very exciting product.
Nelson, with his greater experience, may be better able to describe all of these amps. But as to which is best? That is like saying vanilla is better than strawberry - it is a matter of what you enjoy. All of these bring something different to the table.
Not sure if that helps, but it is the best I can do. |
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| apassgear |
| Jon, nice round up for the lot, I appreciate...Thanks :cool: |
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| Vix |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon Ver Halen
The F4 sounds like a cross between the F1 and the F3. Cleaner than the F2, a touch of sweetness, but the truth is still front and center. |
Uhm....Being just a follower, it shuold be cleaner than the F2. Jfet input brings a touch of sweetness, mismatched output devices bring some 2nd order harmonic, so it sounds a bit like single-ended....
Not having input Jfets at the moment, I was thinging about ways to make a simple buffer with irf610/irf9610 or similar, but..than it may loose a bit of sweetness. Using matched ouput devices should make it a bit more "clear" while unmatched provide more"romantic" sound?
Have I gone too far?
:D |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nelson Pass
Commenting on the particular mis-match of the complementary
types, ..................
:cool: |
Papa talk about mismatching between 240 and 9240
seems that everybody else talk about matching (or not ) between devices ;
this is -still-preferable............ |
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| bogdan_borko |
Great thanks to mr.Pass for shearing one of his ideas with us!
As I can see, the bias current trough the resistors network for the mosfets gates is about 1.4mA. Some wold say that`s funny! You have to drive the gate`s capacitances (3*IRFP240). How do you expain this mr.Pass?
Cheers! |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by bogdan_borko
Great thanks to mr.Pass for shearing one of his ideas with us!
As I can see, the bias current trough the resistors network for the mosfets gates is about 1.4mA. Some wold say that`s funny! You have to drive the gate`s capacitances (3*IRFP240). How do you expain this mr.Pass?
Cheers! |
AC or DC current ,when you think about gates?
:devilr:
anyway-look what's common there.........source or drain..... |
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| GRollins |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jozef
Voltage is almost same as this linestage.
On one PCB maybe ? |
If that tube will run well at that voltage, then by all means give it a try.
Grey |
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| Nelson Pass |
| quote: | Originally posted by bogdan_borko
As I can see, the bias current trough the resistors network for the mosfets gates is about 1.4mA. Some wold say that`s funny! You have to drive the gate`s capacitances (3*IRFP240). |
Of course that is the DC value, but the JFETs are capable of
sourcing quite a bit more AC. How much do you think you need
here in order to sound good?
As to the matching thing, please note that the parallel devices
are matched - we have been referring to the (mis)match between
P and N types.
:cool: |
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| Nelson Pass |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon Ver Halen
Nelson, with his greater experience, may be better able to describe all of these amps. |
Not likely. I think I'm just going to quote you from now on.
:cool: |
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| eLarson |
| Like asking which kid is favorite, eh? :cool: |
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| bogdan_borko |
Sorry my mistake. Sometimes a man can`t see a tree even if it`s in from of him...
I`m working right now on my own design (voltage amplifier + current amplifier(follower) and I`m wondering wath is the best choise for voltage amplifier. I need 18V peak to peak and input impedance of follower is about 50K. I was experimenting in simulator with a one stage nfb single ended voltage amplifier with heavy local feedback working with +250V and results are very very good. I made it in practice and the sound is magnificent. The only "problem" is that is capacitor coupled.
I could post the schematic here if anyone interesed...
cheers! |
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| TJ |
Hi , i like to make some mod on this amp ,will anyone like to help me ? i have a lot of amplifier transformer ( Marantz ,Hk pioneer) most of them have ~ 45-0-45 vdc @ 4A , can i use on F4 ? and i like to reduce the bias to class AB and use only 1 or 2 pair output mosfet . possible ?
btw ,to be honest , i like all the diy amp design by Mr Pass , but that kind of amplifier not practical , waste too much . (u can build it but u cannot enjoy it ) !!! and how many people on earth can afford big horn speaker ? i rather stick with Class AB and not all in this Class are rubbish .Some are better than Class A . |
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| apassgear |
TJ,
You are an old member, and have learned that most all amps on this side of the forum are class A. What you are proposing is a completely different animal and IMO not recommended.
On the Solid State forum you will find hundreds of nice class AB amps with those rail voltages, if I were you I would stick to those. No offence intended. |
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| Babowana |
| quote: | Originally posted by TJ
btw ,to be honest , i like all the diy amp design by Mr Pass , but that kind of amplifier not practical , waste too much . (u can build it but u cannot enjoy it ) !!! and how many people on earth can afford big horn speaker ? i rather stick with Class AB and not all in this Class are rubbish .Some are better than Class A .
|
There are many good speakers offering high efficiency.
Many music lovers like such speakers and want to drive them
with good amp.
Papa is offering us elegant amps free.
Why a devil should complain?
:darkside: |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by Babowana
There are many good speakers offering high efficiency.
Many music lovers like such speakers and want to drive them
with good amp.
Papa is offering us elegant amps free.
Why a devil should complain?
:darkside: |
you are (same as really You are) right with these..........
but I can't to not see that you are grumpy lately? |
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| Babowana |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
but I can't to not see that you are grumpy lately?
|
Thanks, Choky, for making me look back myself.
I agree that I have been grumpy recently here and there.
I apologize to all nice and friendly people here.
And, I hope this thread will be no more polluted after this.
:darkside: |
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| GRollins |
I thought it was my job to be the grump!
Grey |
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| Samuel Jayaraj |
So far, I haven't seen anyone recommending substitutes for the JFETs; any suggestions, considering the scarcity of JFETs all around?
Any ideas on cascoding lower voltage devices which will also reduce the input capacitance seen by the preamp? |
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| AD |
Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that the equivalents to the input JFETs are 2SJ74 and 2SK170, which I checked in my Toshiba databook to be true.
To the contrary of many people who complain these cannot be found, there are at least a few suppliers selling these.
This supplier sells them in small quantities and reasonalble prices:
http://www.tech-diy.com/smallsignal.htm
They also have low international shipping charge and accept Paypal. |
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| mpmarino |
Thanks for the tip AD!
They had everything I needed and the checkout was painless. |
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| steenoe |
Isnt that one of the DIYaudio users business? Not that I would mind at all:) If they can supply, be my guest:D
Steen:) |
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| EUVL |
Those in Europe could also try www.schuro.de
About the same price, if you include custom charges.
Patrick |
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| mpmarino |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
Isnt that one of the DIYaudio users business? Not that I would mind at all:) If they can supply, be my guest:D
Steen:) |
I wasn't aware. I have no idea who that would be as I see no name attached anywhere, not on the paypal email either. No matter :) |
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| jacco vermeulen |
New Jersey Jack aka JackinNJ
You know, the guy with the dress.
What did i win this time on jeopardy ? |
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| mpmarino |
Nothing.
Who is? should be how the answer starts. Your disqualified:D |
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| steenoe |
Yep, I was about to say Jackinnj, but I wasnt sure:D Lets all empty him out:D
Steen:) |
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| jacco vermeulen |
Panty hose robbery ? OK
You can have the semis.
I'll take Jack's Portland Oregon stuff and the dress. |
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| RKH |
I'm not endorsing and have no financial connection to... simply clarifying and relating past experience...
tech-diy.com is jackinnj on this forum. I've always had great service on the few orders I've placed with him.
Hope that helps.
Ryan |
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| steenoe |
Ryan, that helped a lot:) Ordering a bunch of JAP's J-fets, I hope they are matchable;) Otherwise, you will be the first to learn:smash:
Steen:cool: |
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| Blues |
| quote: | Originally posted by RKH
tech-diy.com is jackinnj on this forum. I've always had great service on the few orders I've placed with him.
Hope that helps.
Ryan |
Jacco & Mark, category in Jeopardy is "Before and After"
Answer: A small biz based in NJ that sells jfets and is owned by an Audiodiy member who wears a dress in his avatar.
Question: What is tech.diy and Jackinnj? |
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| steenoe |
Blues, your bottomline is great;)
You cant beat this though:
"I would rather be the devil, than be that womans man!"
Steen:) |
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| mpmarino |
OT:
Blues, are you still working on that ///vapor-ware or have you moved on?
vapor-ware:
not hardware. not software. not tupperware. They still have no idea how it works. |
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| steenoe |
What i would like to see is Jacco, in Jack's dress:D :D
Pic's please:D
Steen:cool: |
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| Blues |
| quote: | Originally posted by mpmarino
OT:
Blues, are you still working on that ///vapor-ware or have you moved on?
vapor-ware:
not hardware. not software. not tupperware. They still have no idea how it works. |
Hey Mark! Yes, 600 sites are up and running for X/AT&T from Tampa Bay/Lakeland, Orlando/Daytona/Melbourne to Jacksonville/Tallahassee/Gainesville (North FL). Done Jan this year. Totally different from 2G. Still with X?
I was just in Spokane, WA/Helena, MT for a small company...I guess where X doesn't want 3G presence because they're small city. |
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| Blues |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
Blues, your bottomline is great;)
You cant beat this though:
"I would rather be the devil, than be that womans man!"
Steen:) |
Steen, anyway loving that woman is a shame and a sin...so you can be both the devil and that woman's man! :) |
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| mpmarino |
| Still here at X... and using ///vaporware to make this post. works mint! |
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| Blues |
| quote: | Originally posted by mpmarino
Still here at X... and using ///vaporware to make this post. works mint! |
:cool: ...to borrow NP's |
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| steenoe |
| quote: | | Steen, anyway loving that woman is a shame and a sin...so you can be both the devil and that woman's man! |
I guess you are right;) Cant beleive, the things we set straight here :D
Steen:cool: |
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| jacco vermeulen |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
Pic's please |
Are you Nuts ?
I'll make you a deal:
you talk Nelson into getting a marine corps trim and i'll wear the dress.
peep |
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| steenoe |
He-he;) jacco, you look great! Almost as great as me:D I would be happy to drag you around at the DK Open airs:D I might even score a chick or two:D :D
Steen:cool: |
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| Zen Mod |
you boyz are nutzzzzzzzzz
:devilr: |
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| mpmarino |
| quote: | | you talk Nelson into getting a marine corps trim and i'll wear the dress. |
you talk Nelson into sending me a F4 and I'll wear the dress. I'll rip it right off Jack's back.
(I wonder when jackinnj will stumble on this:xeye: ) |
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| steenoe |
| quote: | | you boyz are nutzzzzzzzzz |
What the hoooot, gave you that idea:D
Jacco, if you are ready to jump on the train, i will arrange for a girlie party in my end;) As long as you will help out in the kitchen, I am sure you will be the hero of the day:) Those chicks are getting tired of praising my cooking skills:D Have a look at the last time:devilr:
Steen:) |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
What the hoooot, gave you that idea:D
Jacco, if you are ready to jump on the train, i will arrange for a girlie party in my end;) As long as you will help out in the kitchen, I am sure you will be the hero of the day:) Those chicks are getting tired of praising my cooking skills:D Have a look at the last time:devilr:
Steen:) |
hehehe
those poor spks looks eeeny weeeny for proper party..........
now is really time for some sawing,gluing and sanding.........mucho sawing,gluing and sanding............
seems that you have 'nuff place for proper par of spks :devilr:
ps: send my respect to these beautiful God's creatures :worship:
jacco never answered -which type of boxes are in his soldering room.......? |
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| steenoe |
| quote: | | ps: send my respect to these beautiful God's creatures |
Yep, will do. I love those two girls:D They keep asking me, will you do this for me, would you do that for me....the answer is always: Yes I will:) Either I am stupid, or I am a nice guy?? Take your pick:smash: I just cant help it, seeing a girl like that in trouble..:D What do you think of those two funky, Gal's??
Steen:cool: |
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| jacco vermeulen |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
send my respect to these beautiful God's creatures |
Look Ma, no tongue. I'll leave the French kissing to Steen. |
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| jacco vermeulen |
| quote: | Originally posted by steenoe
Almost as great as me |
Yeah, but i'm the kinky one. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by jacco vermeulen
Look Ma, no tongue. I'll leave the French kissing to Steen. |
ya boyz are twice nutzzzzzzzz
waaaaayyyy OT in Papa's thread
btw-jacco-you are ugly almost as me..........here talkin' : "hey,that thing hotter than barbicue must be Papa's amp covered with chick's magazine..........."
:devilr: |
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| steenoe |
| quote: | | I'll leave the French kissing to Steen. |
I am good at that, or at least so i was told by some of the girls on the pic:D Dont tell my girlfriend though:) Since Jacco started, I will follow. Here is a pic of me, (with a big fish I caught) 13,2 kg's!!
Thats just under 30 lbs
Steen:cool:
BTW just want to add, the fish is still swimming around in its lake!!
Ofcourse, I want to say:D
BTW BTW:D Zen mod, you can look after the barbeque allright, we will have a chilled lager in the meantime:D :D |
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| jacco vermeulen |
| Me and my little fish |
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| jacco vermeulen |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zen Mod
ugly almost as me |
Choke, you should eat more. Too much Bar-B-que |
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| steenoe |
That little fish is way prettier than mine:) Where did you catch a beautyfull looking thing like that?
Comon' those spaghetti arms are not gonna impress anyone;)
Steen:) |
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| jacco vermeulen |
| Half tropical, doesn't speak Indonesian...yet. |
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