| enzedone |
O.K I'm no engineer so my explination may be a little off target..............
Thorens TD160
I want to put my platter and sub-platter onto a whole new base. But I don't want to use the suspended sub-chassis that sits underneath. But this houses the bearing/casing that the sub-platter sits into and rotates on. I have tried to get this off, but it looks as though it is welded to the sub-chassis. Am I right in thinking that this housing is welded on? If so can you get another that could be used? Or should I cut that piece off and attach it to the new base I wish to use.............
Any suggestions would be great....
P.S I don't have a wealth of machinery to use, so I'm limited as to how much I can do.
Brett |
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| AndrewT |
Hi,
check your bearing for wear first.
Clean all the old oil out and clean off the spindle.
Reassemble and check for looseness at the turntable rim. Up/down is equivalent to sideways slop in the bearing.
If it's too far gone it's probably not worth the effort of the rebuild.
A good machine shop might be able to remove the old bushes and line bore the new ones to a good fit to the spindle, but it'll not be cheap. |
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| Alain Dupont |
Brett,
I thought about it 5 years ago, when installing the DC motor
in my Thorens TD 145.
The bearing is made of a steel tube set in the sub-chassis,
to be able to reuse it you will have to cut the subchassis
around say 2 to 3" diameter from the center to be able to
set it in your new chassis...
A lot of work, but douable...
I was thinking of a chassis like the Rega P25
You need to find someone capable of cutting the subchassis
of your TD 160 before going further
then You'll have to build the new TT base
Better go for a BIX turntable, will cost less trouble
and in the mean time still enjoy your Thorens.
And sell it as collector item further...
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_bix.htm
PS: as AndrewT say's check for the bearing wear before,
but this piece can be replaced with a teflon coated new bearing
if the spindle has no wear...
See:
http://www.directindustry.fr/prod/g...4800-12627.html
http://www.directindustry.fr/prod/r...6837-37389.html
these are similar to the original bearing, installed press fit...
Regards.
Alain. |
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| enzedone |
Alain,
That steel seems rather hard, you could be right about it being a big job. I will do a test on it and try drilling one small hole to see how hard it is before i go go any further.
I was going to cut it out about 120mm across and then drill a lot of holes around so as to get a good solid contact onto the the MDF plinth.
I'm thinking trailing a MDF-Cork-MDF combination. 20mm MDF onto a 4mm Cork layer, then mounting to another bottom layer of MDF. This I might place holes around and fill with a bottle a 10kg of shot pallets to give that bottom layer extra weight.
Alain; Question for you. I have been looking at ebay, at some tone arms and they seem to be a little pricey for my NZ dollar. How good are the original arms, if set up properly. Is worth looking at getting something else?
Brett |
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| Alain Dupont |
enzedone,
For a new tonearm, the original model is worth a 600/800U$ base...
So to get better, you'll have to go to 800 to 1200 U$ and used at 400/800U$
Costly, I was thinking of building a "Schroeder"
but have no time to do the mecanical schematic for now...
Look on Audiogon.com for used ones...
Depends also if you want to use a MC cartridge ?
It's why I wanted to go for a Rega P25 or BIX , be able to set a nice Kontrapunkt A
Denon DL103R or Shelter, all low output MC catridges
to get the best of my Allen Wright FVP5A phono stage...{pending project...}
Arms:
Rega RB600
Vpi JMW 9 or 10
Graham Robin
PS: Think of a steel plate about 4 to 5 mm between 2 layers of cork
or butyl or silicone or polyurethane to get some more mass for the bearing support
Regards.
Alain. |
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| enzedone |
Heres some pics of he old motor, the one that has a bent shaft.
It is sitting next to the new one. |
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| enzedone |
| First, I drilled out the standups that hold the motor to the sub-chassis. |
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| enzedone |
then pulled it apart.
First comes off the back plate.
there are two washers, one plastic, on the inside, and a metal one which sits against the outer casing. |
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| enzedone |
| The two washers, very small and easy to lose. |
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| enzedone |
| This is a closer view of the backpart of the motor. |
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| enzedone |
| The other side of the motor, cominig apart, this has two plates facing opposite directions. |
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| enzedone |
| the last plate bfore the outer wiring |
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| enzedone |
| And the outer coil |
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| enzedone |
A view of the other side with coil off.
This is as far as I could go. I couldn't get the brass ring off to remove the shaft out to straighten it, so I put it back together, for another day. |
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| enzedone |
Started cutting up my TD160 sub-chassis today. first I marked out the area to be cut and drilled. I made up a template so as to get the right diameter. This was made with some perspex.
Inner whole 20mm outer ones: 2mm |
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| enzedone |
| Drilled the wholes first, as I thought this to be easier than trying later. |
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| enzedone |
| Started this with a hack saw, then took it out side and finished it of with a 4 inch grinder & a file. |
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| enzedone |
If you use a grinder make sure you get as close as possible to the outer line so you don't end up with too much filing, but be carefull not to take out too big a chunks.:bawling:
The Plinth dimensions are 500mm x 400mm. The platter will be sitting dead centre.
Standard 16 toonearm. With my own stand for it made from 20mm plumbing pipe which I will re-polish and then coat with a clear coat |
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| enzedone |
This is a pic of the back of the tonearm.
I drilled two wholes and used some screws which i cut down as fasteners for the the tone arm
Not too bad for a $3.00 plumbing pipe, and yes it was an exact fit, 20mm |
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| Apogee |
Nice work so far...
This is an interesting project!
I'm anxious to see the finished product... :smash: |
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| enzedone |
I am not going to house the motor directly underneath the plinth.
I will house the motor in it's own case then sit it on the bottom of three MDF plinths that will be sandwhiched by to layers of 4.8mm cork. So the only MDF that will touching the motor will be the base one.
First i cut out the top of the moter housing using 5mm white perspex. i use what I have at home and try to keep things simple as I don't have a great selection of tolls. So it's a metter of making do.
It's about 95mm round. The whole is counter sunk so as to let the motor sit flush up against the underside. The whole are 20mm & 16mm |
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| enzedone |
| Here is the three screws to hold the motor on. |
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| enzedone |
| Ready to go onto the outer case................yet another piece of plumbing pipe..............................and no I'm not a plumber |
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| enzedone |
I knew that tranny would come in handy one day........
Glued and screwed............... |
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| enzedone |
Checking the positioning of the motor before cutting whole in plinth.
I wanted the plinth to be big enough so that I was able to place the motor at the back.
I will try and post some more pics tomorrow otherwise, it won't be until next week before I have time time to work on this again...........................:bawling: |
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| audio3chung |
Enzedone,
What a wonderful work you have done, looking forward to see the final product.
BTW have you get a phono amp?
Best regards,
CHOW |
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| enzedone |
Yes i managed to buy an old Soundcraftsmen PE4002
I haven't really done much with it yet, but wil give a go over later when the TT is ready for use.
Here's some pics of where I'm at:
Finished sany and priming the three boards, may do some more work on them yet, see how impatient i become:devilr:
The motor is not cut down yet, as I will be placing a wood plate to go on top so the platter doesn't sit so high and stand out above the the plinth. |
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| enzedone |
This is where im up to now..............
Placed the three boards and the two layers of cork together to see it all........ and threw on the platter just to check it out. |
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| enzedone |
This week I have been thinking about joining it all up and whether or not to glue/screw the whole thing together. I am thinking about glueing the bottom layers and leaving the top MDF layer to be screwed. This will allow access to the wiring if needed, and if I ever wish to change anything around I can.
:smash: |
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| enzedone |
Something I forgot to do was keep a tally of the cost:
Second hand Thorens TD160 = NZD$175
3 x 18mm MDF NZD$30
Plumbing pipe x1,Nuts x2 NZD$5
2 x cans primer NZD$32
:bawling: |
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| enzedone |
| I cut a whole out to fit a power socket in. This is going into the middle plate of MDF. I put it right behind the motor. I hope this all fits into place:dodgy: |
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| enzedone |
Started glueing some cork onto the bottom MDF as well. Debating over whether I should have waited to paint the top coat first. But as usual I got impatient......
I didn't get much done today, spent the morning at baby class learning how to breast feed..............lovely stuff, all along I was really thinking about geting this thing finished :devilr:
Before i placed the cork on, I drilled a whole lot of holes and filled them with shot, i had this in the garage as I was planning to something different to the TD160, but changed my mind |
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| enzedone |
close up of the shot
Drilling:
I had an old spade bit that was broken at the tip. This allowd me to drilled down, otherwise I would have gone through the bottom with the tip.
I put a piece of masking tape around the spade bit to mark the depth to drill to.This worked well. Couldn't use the drill press as it wouldn't reach into the centre of the board. |
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| enzedone |
Put a power switch in today. Pulled this from an old Home theatre amp, I bought for the case. Came in handy.
Didn't know whether to put this in or just leave it out, so as the plinth is clean looking. But it's in now so there it stays |
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| enzedone |
| Just another closer view |
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| enzedone |
| Put in a Perspex plate with RCA connectors as well, today. I drilled the holes into the back and then drilled holes down to meet these, so I can thread the wires through the MDF without any showing. I will pull all these things off again before painting top coat. Just wanted to check that evrything fits before painting. |
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| Paul Dimaline |
| Excellent work, keep it up!! |
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| AndrewT |
Hi,
you managed to drill and bolt the "perspex" (acrylic) without cracking it !!!
Are you lucky or skilled?
Where is the RIAA pre going? Inside the chassis I hope. |
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| enzedone |
I have built a couple of GC amps using this stuff, as it's the only type of material I can work with. I have limited tools and this stuff allows me to build things with ease, unlike metal.
I have an old Soundcraftsmen Pre amp that I will be running this from. I haven't had time to give it a good going over. It needs the Volume pot and the likes cleaning out. But hopefully this will do for a while. |
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| faxurda |
Great Job!!!.
I waiting the final result....
I got old AR-XA turntable part I will use in a DIY project similar to you.... |
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| enzedone |
I have finally found some time to start putting some more coats on. Having a baby in the house doesn't help and that he's only one week old.
Had to put up some plastic to stop the spray going everywhere as the miss's didn't like it. Trying to wash baby clothes in the laundry tub with the smell of paint went down like a lead balloon. These drop sheets were only $3 each. Garage still smells bad though...........:devilr: |
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| enzedone |
I sprayed about 4 coats of satin on these two pieces. Didn't want them gloss as it would show all my bad workmanship........
The clear coat is also going to be satin. |
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| audio3chung |
enzedone
congratulation, have the baby got a chinese name?
The smell realy a problem, and the health of the baby is more important. Anyway a great job you have done.
Best regards
CHOW |
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| enzedone |
Inlaws ment to be sorting that out..............
He's half Chinese, half kiwi:D |
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| enzedone |
| No glue or wiring yet, just checking it looks ok. I will put a piece of black perspex on top, so im not worried that it isn't finished properly. |
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| enzedone |
| This isn't too hi tech or expensive. Just put some rubber feet on that I purchased from a surplus shop. I then glued some rubber gromets on top/bottom with some glue out my bike pepair kit,:dodgy: But they seem to be sticking ok. These act like little shock absorbers, they work quite well. |
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| enzedone |
Did a little bit of work on the tone arm base today. I wasn't going to use this original base, but after I sanded it down with wet&dry, it looked much cleaner. I cut the arms back that usually lift the tonearm, as I will not be putting that mechanism into the plinth. But I wanted something for the arm to rest on. When I bought this table second hand, the rest was broken.
I may change this, but for now it stays. |
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| enzedone |
I shouldn't be showing this photo as it's bad workmanship.......
I needed the shaft so I completely munted the entire lift mechanism. Cut the whole thing up and just left the base plate. Then made up a really, really quick and nasty bracket to hold the shaft in place. It looks bad, but seems to domthe job ok....and whos going to see it anyway, once it's all together;) |
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| enzedone |
| Started cuting down my motor today. I left this 10mm high as I'm going to put a perspex plate ontop of the existing plinth. In the TD160, there's a sub chassis, which the sub platter sits on. this makes the top platter sit very low down and only just above the the pinth. This is what I want as well. So I will place a plate of perspex ontop with cut-outs for the motor and the sub-platter. Hopefully then the top platter will sit nice and low. |
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| enzedone |
The motor will just about go in last before the sub-platter. I will have to prewire everything before I put the two main pieces together.
I will a trial run, and check that everything runs ok before the final fitting. |
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| enzedone |
| Started to wire up the table today. I will have to wait until the top is on to complete it. |
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| enzedone |
Also put the power socket in. But was dam impatient I munted the dam thing..............If you look to the right of the socket you can see where I screwed the thing up too quickly........
I thought I had pre drilled the holes enough:mad:
Hopefully no one will look around the back too often;) |
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| enzedone |
Put the interconnects plate on to check that it would go in ok. No problems here................
Made sure I had pre drilled properly
Middle name for the new boy is Kun. |
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| enzedone |
I had to buy this one as all my perspex is clear or white. And I didn't have the correct size anyway. At least there was no cutting as this was ordered to the correct size.
I made all the marks before cutting, even the screw holes. In the past I have ben too impatient and just done enough to get the thing together. But this time I took a little more care and made sure that everything was measured three times and then checked over again, $50 NZD is a lot of baby formula..........
If only the misses new how much money I have spent on this
;) |
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| enzedone |
Drilled..........Cut...........Filed.............Sanded...........
Fitted the finished plate to see if it fits. I marked the holes through to the plinth so I could pre drill them later and attach it via screws.
I started sanding the sides with 240grit to remove all the file marks. Then went to 400....600....800....1000.....1200.....1500....(wet & dry) then finished it off with BRASSO, which is used for metal pollishing. |
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| enzedone |
Being very careful with the sub platter, I placed it back on to check that the platter was sitting slightly higher than the motor.
I originally wanted the top plate to be 15mm thick so that the sub platter would sit lower down into it, and the top platter wouldn't sit up so much on top, but they only supply 10mm thick, so out of luck there. Just have to make do. The top platter does sit up a bit but it's not too bad...............
Anyway I'm really more interested in how this sounds.;) |
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| enzedone |
You can see in this picture that the sub platter is just sitting over the motor. I put the top platter on as well to check that it spun ok and was not rubbing agianst the motor.
Ok so thats about it for this period of work. I am still working on my motor case made from very expensive plumbing pipe;)
I tried to get quite a bit done this weekend as it was my last few days off on my break, to spend it working on my turntable/....................doh, I mean help my wife with the new baby.:D |
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| enzedone |
| I thougth I'd show this pic. It's whats left of my TD160............................:D |
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| enzedone |
| Finished cutting the motor down to the right height. Painted the outside and inserted the resistor and capacitor that was taken out of the Thorens. I then stuffed the inside around the motor with some cotton wool to reduce the noise.............and this definately worked. I didn't want to go all the way and completely fill the entire chamber as i was worried about the motor over heating. I also gave it a quick spray paint with some left over paint from the plinth. |
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| enzedone |
| Motor was then hooked up and placed down into position. I then stuffed cotton wool around the base of the motor so that it was jammed in. There is no need to glue or screw the motor down it just sits there. .............I hope;) |
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| enzedone |
By this stage I couldn't hold myself back, everything had to finished, so I quickly recleaned the sub platter and platter and wacked them on........................:smash:
And I know the Tone arm is no where near ready to go on, I couldn't wait any longer, so off came the perpex protection sheet. |
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| enzedone |
The platter spins nicely and is very quiet.............
I will have to mess around the tone arm for a while. I ordered a protractor to set it up but it seems as though this web site is a bit of a rip -off................turntablebasics............ordered it two months ago and it never turned up. So I will just have to see if someone has got something I can use instead of paying out more money:mad: |
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| AndrewT |
Hi,
make your own protractor.
A piece of card with a few lines at right angles.
Add a cat's whisker across the front of your cartridge. Straight and black is ideal.
It makes it very easy to SEE if the front of the cartridge is truly at right angles to the tangents of the two radii that you select for zero tracking error.
Yes, use the two radii method. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by enzedone
The platter spins nicely and is very quiet.............
I will have to mess around the tone arm for a while. I ordered a protractor to set it up but it seems as though this web site is a bit of a rip -off................turntablebasics............ordered it two months ago and it never turned up. So I will just have to see if someone has got something I can use instead of paying out more money:mad: |
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...402#post1147402 |
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| enzedone |
Andrew thanks for that, but I'm new to all this TT stuff. And I think that yours, allthough probably more accurate, is just beyond me at this stage. i have tried printing the one off The vinyl engine so many times, but just can't get it to print to the right ratio..........:mad:
Zen Mod, I will try to print the one from 'enjoy the music' and see if it comes out better than my others.........
Watch this space,.........;) |
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| AndrewT |
forget that enjoy the music protractor.
It's far too complicated.
draw a radius from the hole (drill it last).
mark on the two test radii.
mark crosses through the test radii.
draw a series of lines parallel to the first radius.
now drill that hole (is it 5/16ths?)
place the stylus tip on the cross.
is the cat's whisker parallel to the parallel lines?
repeat for the second cross.
adjust until perfect.
go to the vinyl engine and scroll down to Heybrook.
it looks similar to that but without all the short lines. Just draw the LONG lines parallel to the first radius through the hole. |
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| enzedone |
I have a bit of time before i start this tone arm deal, so it will give me time to think all this over. I probably wont get to it this weekend, as it's easter weekend and we are out looking for strollers for the new boy...........hopefully I'll get one on special.
I still have to do some playing around with what was the arm lift, as this is now just a support for the tone arm. But I need to check that all the heigths will be ok. And also do some more filing to fit the original tone arm base into the new plinth. I'm still not happy with the tone arm holder that I made up, so may play around with that also........................Hey! does anyone have an arm lift out there, that they are not using, or know where I can get one really cheap(thats cheap in NZD)?.
looking back, if I had the money, ........................ah if.
I would like to have fitted a really nice motor. But this was really about trying to build a reasonable TT with what I basically had.
I feel another project coming on.......................
;) |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by AndrewT
forget that enjoy the music protractor.
It's far too complicated.
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you lost me there............
simple geometry can't be complicated.
key is in understanding ; then you can use any protractor,even draw one by your self.... |
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| enzedone |
I would really love someone to explain it all to me, (who is a real newbee)................................
Like in real simple terms...........
:xeye: |
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| enzedone |
Thanks to Alan, a fellow member from Auckland. He lent me his Lynn Alignment protractor. I haven't been able to start on this part yet as I was sick for 2 weeks.
Question. I will be using a cartridge off my Dual. It's an Audio Technica 110E. But the mounts are at the top as apposed to the really old and totally munted Sure.
Can you get new screws for the Head shell, as I'm going to have to cut these down so I can screw them into the head shell, at the moment they are far too long. |
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| enzedone |
| here's a pic of the protractor, after I copied it and got it laminated. The sides were cippled slightly, but that won't me too much. |
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| enzedone |
| here's a pic of the AT, you can see that the screws neede are quite short. I'm worried that if I try to cut them, I might ruin them. Or if I decide to get a decent Cartridge, I won't be able to use the screws again. |
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| AndrewT |
Hi,
screws used to be available in a range of lengths. Maybe more difficult to source now that vinyl is less popular.
The really hard steel used in a 12.9 cap screw will not be easy to cut/file/saw. And when you have managed to saw it using the incorrect technique your saw will be useless for the second screw.
Then you have to file and/or grind the damaged end to allow the nut to fit well. A thread file will not look at 12.9, if you can find one with a fine enough matching pitch.
I don't know if they are metric or imperial, but 2.5mm does fit.
The problem then is finding a wholesaler willing to sell two of each length. |
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| Zen Mod |
| quote: | Originally posted by enzedone
.........
Can you get new screws for the Head shell, as I'm going to have to cut these down so I can screw them into the head shell, at the moment they are far too long. |
if screw' aren't too heavy in original length,just place nuts on top of HS and screws from bottom ...ie-upside down.
in fact-that's correct way of mounting |
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| VivaVee |
What length do you need? I have a draw 'full' of them that are very unlikely to ever get used.
/Alan. |
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| enzedone |
Alan, good question. I'm not really sure as they will only need to go through the cartridge and then they screw into the headshell. The headshell is only very thin, so I would say only about 4-6,7,8mm. Just guessing here, as I haven't measured it.
If I end up getting a good cartridge, do they supply screws? Or do you have buy your own? |
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| AndrewT |
Hi,
some cartridges have tapped blind holes in the top for mounting purposes.
One must be very careful to ensure that the securing bolts/screws do not bottom in the holes when tightening. The risk of damaging the plastic casing is quite high if bolts/screws are too long.
Some cartridge manufacturers supply suitable/unsuitables fixings. Most arm manufacturers supply a range of fixing lengths. |
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